![]() | Hezbollah has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This page has archives. |
Left-wing
[edit]I get why different Arab socialist parties and alike (Nasserist, Ba'athist, Gaddafist ect.) are called left-wing but Hezbollah? Braganza (talk) 19:05, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
- @Skitash and Aficionado538: Braganza (talk) 22:14, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
- Although Hezbollah's core ideology is Shia Islamism, it is typically positioned on the political spectrum as left-leaning due to its incorporation of leftist leanings to maintain support from left wing Shi'ite supporters from various groups such as the Lebanese Communist Party and the People's Movement of Lebanon. I have added a source which supports this to the article [1]. Another source [2] argues that the organization's political structure is leftist: "It starts with the political structure and the country’s declared purpose. In both structures, there is a supreme leader or secretary-general, followed by a guardian council or a politburo, followed by a central committee or expediency council and the members of the party. Each has its own colors, but the construction of the blocs is similar. And this goes to serve the objectives of the belief or theology. It is state over individual. It is the same structure as the Muslim Brotherhood has opted for. When it comes to the economy, free enterprise is replaced by a state-run economy. And so, by all accounts, Hezbollah is a left-wing political formation." Skitash (talk) 23:09, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
- Nowhere in those sources does it say that is left wing in its core, only that it adopts some left wing view points. A political structure isn't what makes a party leftist or not. It is socially conservative, nationalist and theocratic. You could add that it holds left wing believes on economics. Jaxthesubhuman (talk) 06:38, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
- Isn't left-wing politics in the Arab world associated with (some) secularism?
- There are other arab socialist parties which don't have a position at all because they don't really fit the western left-wing criteria (ALF, PLO, PLF, Syrian Ba'ath in Lebanon, Iraqi Ba'ath in Yemen, NVP, NDA, Sawab, Arab Ba'ath Progressive Party, Iraqi Ba'ath Party in Jordan, LPNM, NUPO).
- Khomeinism has some left-leaning ideas (state controlled economy or anti-imperialism) but this doesn't make them left-wing either and the first two sources you have given are quite week: the first one states that only the milieu is left-wing but not the party leadership and the second one has a quite critical section on her wikipedia article (Judith Butler#Comments on Hamas, Hezbollah and the Israel–Hamas war). Only the last one is imo really reliable but i don't think its accepted by the mainstream. Braganza (talk) 06:40, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
- Although Hezbollah's core ideology is Shia Islamism, it is typically positioned on the political spectrum as left-leaning due to its incorporation of leftist leanings to maintain support from left wing Shi'ite supporters from various groups such as the Lebanese Communist Party and the People's Movement of Lebanon. I have added a source which supports this to the article [1]. Another source [2] argues that the organization's political structure is leftist: "It starts with the political structure and the country’s declared purpose. In both structures, there is a supreme leader or secretary-general, followed by a guardian council or a politburo, followed by a central committee or expediency council and the members of the party. Each has its own colors, but the construction of the blocs is similar. And this goes to serve the objectives of the belief or theology. It is state over individual. It is the same structure as the Muslim Brotherhood has opted for. When it comes to the economy, free enterprise is replaced by a state-run economy. And so, by all accounts, Hezbollah is a left-wing political formation." Skitash (talk) 23:09, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
- The academic sources cited previously in the page do not claim that Hezbollah is a left-wing group.
- From the book "Hezbollahland: Mapping Dahiya and Lebanon's Shia Community" (pg. 33) authored by Hanin Ghaddar
- year: 2023
- Publisher: Rowman & Littlefield
"Because the majority of the leftist parties' members came from the Shia community, this group was important for Hezbollah. Thus, Hezbollah has incorporated Shia with leftist leanings in its milieu–but not necessarily among its core military and leadership structure or trusted elites. Rather, these individuals have to be ideologically and religiously aligned, and Hezbollah has always been wary of leftist ideologies and views.
Because many communists and leftists supported Hezbollah's resistance but not its Islamic and ideological principles, the group sometimes had to tamp down its ideological stance when it needed support. Indeed, when Hezbollah highlighted its connection to Iran's velayat-e faqih, many leftists were critical and expressed disillusionment.
The tension between Hezbollah and the leftist milieu in Lebanon is increasing today because of two factors: (1) Hezbollah's financial crisis and (2) its involvement in Iran's regional wars. Many leftists genuinely supported Hezbollah's resistance rhetoric but not its ideology, even while they benefited from the group's services and political power. As both have started to decline, the leftists in Lebanon are becoming an internal challenge for Hezbollah."[1]
- From the book "Jews and Leftist Politics: Judaism, Israel, Antisemitism, and Gender" (pg. 135, 136) edited by Jack Jacobs
- Year: 2017
- Publisher: Cambridge University Press
"Butler was asked whether the left could support Hamas and Hezbollah. She responded that "understanding Hamas, Hezbollah as social movements that are progressive, that are on the left, that are part of the global left, is extremely important." It was possible, she added, to see them this way while being critical of "certain dimensions" of them. She has since insisted that fury at her remarks decontextualizes them. ...
To critics of her claim that Hamas and Hezbollah were part of a "global left," she replies, "My first point was merely descriptive: those political organizations define themselves as anti-imperialist, and anti-imperialism is one characteristic of the global left." Declaring herself this time against both violent resistance and the state, a seemingly pacifist stance, she insisted that she never actually took a position. "To say that those organizations belong to the left is not to say that they should belong or that I endorse or support them in any way" [emphasis in the original]. ... Slavoj Žižek, himself anti-Zionist, has written against leftists prone to "an all- too-easy and uncritical acceptance of anti-American and anti-Western groups as representing 'progressive' forms of struggle, as automatic allies: groups like Hamas and Hezbollah all of a sudden appear as revolutionary agents, even though their ideology is explicitly anti-modern, rejecting the entire egalitarian legacy of the French revolution." He does not name Butler, but this remark seems an obvious rebuttal of her."[2]- These academic sources are arguing against the claim that Hezbollah is a "left-wing" group.
- As for the opinion piece in Arab News which was cited by the user "Skitash", thats not an academic book. Shadowwarrior8 (talk) 15:51, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
It is difficult for the uninitiated to interpret what this group is from the article. It’s apparently a political party, but not really, or a militia, but not technically, etc. What are the demographics of this group? Is it like a political party as in the US, where most are not active or something else. It may be possible this is in the article, but it is not easy to glean anything without getting lost in the weeds. Given many people will be reading it in the current situation, the article needs to be revised with some basic facts at the beginning, and leave a lot of the rest for later in the article. The situation on Hamas seems easier to understand. Again, just what IS it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:645:4300:EE90:F541:1AB1:F3EE:C13A (talk) 10:24, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
- @2601:645:4300:EE90:F541:1AB1:F3EE:C13A
- The problem is that there isn't a clear answer to that question, the subject matter itself is blurry. Hezbollah is simultaneously a political entity, a deep state, and a militia, among other things. It participates in Lebanese elections (so it has a political party like you're describing), but it's also much more than that.
- It doesn't map onto American politics particularly well, but I'll try to give you an analogy anyway. Imagine if the Libertarians were more popular (lol), and also had an active, highly effective militia that frequently involved itself in conflicts nearby, and also had its own "meta-state" within the United States, where it provided government-like services for everyone who lives in Montana and Idaho. Now imagine that this Libertarian Militia was somehow more powerful than the US and Canadian governments.
- This analogy is pretty terrible, and has lots of holes, but it really isn't analogous to anything in American politics, so anything is a stretch. DeVosMax [ contribs • talk • created media ] 10:31, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
References
- ^ Ghaddar, Hanin (2023-07-17). Hezbollahland: Mapping Dahiya and Lebanon's Shia Community. Rowman & Littlefield. p. 33. ISBN 978-1-5381-8300-7.
- ^ Jacobs, Jack (2017-03-24). Jews and Leftist Politics: Judaism, Israel, Antisemitism, and Gender. Cambridge University Press. pp. 135, 136. ISBN 978-1-107-04786-0.
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 November 2023
[edit]In the chapter "Designation as a terrorist organization or resistance movement", Switzerland is incorrectly named as a country which has designated Hezbollah a terrorist organisation. This is inaccurate and the reference gives talks about the Czech Republic.
The following report by the Swiss government (unfortunately only in French and German) shows that Switzerland does not designate Hezbollah a terrorist organisation: https://www.admin.ch/gov/fr/accueil/documentation/communiques.msg-id-91070.html
Please delete the reference to Switzerland.
Thank you! Vpasquier (talk) 09:02, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
- This ref, referring to that report, says "A ban on Hezbollah and its activities in Switzerland could impair missions within the framework of good offices and also Switzerland's humanitarian engagement. Likewise, such a ban could damage Switzerland's credibility as a neutral country, according to the government."
- It seems from this that Switzerland has not designated H as terrorist, so I will remove it unless there is some objection. Selfstudier (talk) 13:36, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
Done by Selfstudier. ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me! 03:33, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
Removal of Japan
[edit]@Nableezy I saw the article, but can you provide the actual list? It seems a bit far fetched. In Japanese wiki the Japanese write their government considers it terrorists when I last saw. I'd imagine they would have removed Japan from their list if such a change was done. Can you present the Public Security list? Homerethegreat (talk) 08:54, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
- You just presented one article from Yahoo. I think the actual Public Security list will make more sense or a few more sources. Thank you for the time. Homerethegreat (talk) 09:15, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
- I dont have the primary source no, and we rely on secondary sources. Wikipedia is also not a reliable source. nableezy - 15:23, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
- You showed only 1 source though... Japanese Wiki still has it. Can you double check? Homerethegreat (talk) 19:12, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
- Have you not tried searching for yourself? Do you have some reason to doubt the info?
- How about this? Selfstudier (talk) 19:36, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks for the source! So basically it appears that the news piece Nableezy sent is not related to whether Japan considers Hezbollah a terrorist organization. Thank you for sending this and making it clear! Nableezy can you self rv?
- "the reason for the major deletion was ``a change in the source of the information.'' Starting with the 2023 edition , the content is said to comply with the sanctions list based on UN Security Council Resolution 1267. Previously, we used reports from overseas think tanks as sources, but we received inquiries as to what the standards were, so we published the 2013 edition with the policy of making the standards clear and easy to understand. Updating the web version. I think this timing made it a hot topic," said the person in charge." - Machine translation
- Basically, it seems that the 2013 directive is still in place and that there wasn't an actual change in policy. Homerethegreat (talk) 16:49, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
- "Starting with the 2023 edition , the content is said to comply with the sanctions list based on UN Security Council Resolution 1267." is the current position. Selfstudier (talk) 16:52, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
- No, because what that actually means is that Japan never actually considered Hezbollah to be a terrorist entity. It had simply listed organizations that think thanks said were terrorist entities. So no, definitely not restoring Japan here, they appear to have never belonged in the first place. nableezy - 16:57, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
- You showed only 1 source though... Japanese Wiki still has it. Can you double check? Homerethegreat (talk) 19:12, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
- I dont have the primary source no, and we rely on secondary sources. Wikipedia is also not a reliable source. nableezy - 15:23, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
References
- ^ "ヒズボラ - 国際テロリズム要覧". 公安調査庁. Retrieved 2014-11-4.
{{cite web}}
: Check date values in:|accessdate=
(help); Text "和書" ignored (help) - ^ Norman, Lawrence and Gordon Fairclough. "Pressure Mounts for EU to Put Hezbollah on Terror List." Wall Street Journal. 7 September 2012. 3 November 2012.
- ^ Kreiger, Hilary Leila and Benjamin Weinthal. "US official urges EU to name Hezbollah 'terrorists.' Jerusalem Post. 26 October 2012. 3 November 2012.
- ^ "Dutch FM urges EU to place Hezbollah on terror group list." JTA. 6 September 2012. 3 November 2012.
- ^ Muriel Asseraf, Prospects for Adding Hezbollah to the EU Terrorist List, September 2007
- ^ Spangler, Timothy (March 25, 2011). "Bahrain complains over Hezbollah comments on protests". Jerusalem Post. Retrieved November 22, 2011.
- ^ "Bahrain arrests bombing suspects and blames Hezbollah". Reuters. November 6, 2012.
- ^ EGYPT: Cairo calls Hezbollah terrorist organization. LA Times, April 13, 2009
Right-wing
[edit]Books describing Hezbollah as right-wing: 1 and 2. Bakbik1234 (talk) 14:21, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
Not done. Both are passing references, the first to some Hezbollah prisoners and the other to some Hezbollah woman. That does not mean that Hezbollah is right wing. Selfstudier (talk) 14:50, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
Islamic fundamentalism
[edit]Sources describing Hezbollah as Islamic fundamentalist: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10] Bakbik1234 (talk) 01:25, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
- Most of the source are from the 1990's to the 2000's. Librero2109 (talk) 15:54, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
References
- ^ "Deal Near on Lebanon Pullout". The Washington Post. 23 June 2000.
Islamic fundamentalist Hezbollah movement
- ^ "Hezbollah unable to resolve German hostage affair, chief says". United Press International. 12 March 1992.
Islamic fundamentalist Hezbollah
- ^ "Hezbollah, Israel in cyberwar". News24. 3 November 2000.
Lebanese Shiite fundamentalist Hezbollah
- ^ "Arafat, Peres to talk peace". The Record. 18 April 1996.
Islamic fundamentalist Hezbollah guerrillas.
- ^ "STRICKEN CITIES". Chicago Tribune. 19 July 2006.
Islamic fundamentalist Hezbollah movement.
- ^ "PIVOTAL FIGURE IN THE BEIRUT CRISIS: NABIH BERRI". The New York Times. 18 June 1985.
Islamic fundamentalist Hezbollah, or Party of God
- ^ "U.S. Fears Islamic Terrorist Influence In South America -- Training And Equipment Offered To Three Countries". The Seattle Times. 1 January 1998.
members of the Islamic fundamentalist Hezbollah movement
- ^ "Hezbollah rocket attacks hurt 19 Israelis in Kiryat Shmona". J. The Jewish News of Northern California. 28 August 1998.
The Islamic fundamentalist Hezbollah movement, which for years has been waging a battle against the Israeli presence in Lebanon, took responsibility for the attacks.
- ^ "Islamist Spring is upon us". Ynet. 24 June 2012.
In Lebanon, the fundamentalist Hezbollah is as dominant as ever
- ^ "Hezbollah Sheik Pledges Help on Hostage Crisis". Los Angeles Times. 12 August 1989.
Lebanon's fundamentalist Hezbollah movement
Anti-Semitism vs Antisemitism
[edit]Hi there. It is now more accepted to use Antisemitism instead of the outdated 'Anti-semitism'. The latter was a term created as a pseudo-scientific explanation for the hatred of Jews, often associated with the Nazi ideology of racial classification (https://holocaustremembrance.com/resources/spelling-antisemitism / https://www.adl.org/spelling-antisemitism-vs-anti-semitism). Thanks 81.108.69.245 (talk) 01:11, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
Hezbollah Is a terrorist organization and should be categorized as such
[edit]Per the United States government and the basic premis of their stated goals Hezbollah is and should be describes as a terrorist organization. According to the US government (citation below), "Hezbollah (“Party of God,” also spelled Hizballah) is an Iran-backed Lebanese Shia militia and U.S.-designated Foreign Terrorist Organization (FTO). Hezbollah is an Iranian partner force, helping Tehran project power across the region, train allied militias (reportedly including Hamas), and threaten U.S. interests and allies across the region." Also "According to the U.S. government, the External Security Organization (ESO, also known as the Islamic Jihad Organization), headed by Talal Hamiyah, is the arm of Hezbollah responsible for overseas terrorist attacks."
There is no excuse for Wikipedia to label Hezbollah as a "political party" when their stated goal of the destruction of the Jewish State. They are a terrorist group with roots in Islamic Jihad and should be labeled as such for the proper education of those researching.
https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF10703#:~:text=Hezbollah%20(“Party%20of%20God%2C,Foreign%20Terrorist%20Organization%20(FTO). 2601:58B:E80:7B20:1DB8:234:24E2:895A (talk) 03:48, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
- There are at least 3 things that you don't appear to have considered or don't care about
- MOS:TERRORIST
- To categorize in Wikipedia means to describe something using Wikipedia's unattributed editorial voice i.e. to state something as an objective fact, which would be inappropriate in this case. When there are a variety of labels depending on POV, a "proper education" requires attribution to the labelers.
- Wikipedia is not part of the US government. See WP:NPOV. Sean.hoyland (talk) 04:33, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Kentucky Rain24: Clearly there is no consensus for the addition of this category. Makeandtoss (talk) 10:24, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- I don't think the above discussion from months ago is related to my recent edit. Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 15:28, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Kentucky Rain24: It is indeed not related to your recent edit, but related to the content of your recent edit, and that is the addition of a terrorism category. Please self-revert now that you are aware that there is more opposition than support to your edit. Makeandtoss (talk) 10:16, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- That someone opposes an edit I made is not enough of a reason to revert my edits. There's also someone who support it. Check oy the Terrorism in Lebanon article - there are whole paragraphs there about Hezbollah's activities. Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 11:56, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Kentucky Rain24: Your edit was reverted because it is POV of certain nations. Now after you have been notified that there are three opposers, and that is enough of a reason to self-revert. Pinging @Selfstudier: and @Sean.hoyland: who have commented on this bit. Makeandtoss (talk) 12:23, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- I think you are confusing labeling Hezbollah as a terrorist organization with categorizing this article as relevant to the category of terrorism in Lebanon, It is not the same thing. Is there a specific reason why you are only inviting people who support your position to this discussion? @user:Prodrummer619 Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 12:29, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- I don't appreciate the false accusation of canvassing, as I have only pinged the two confirmed users who have participated in this discussion. Makeandtoss (talk) 13:40, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- I pointed out what you did. The user I pinged is the one who added this category - surely you saw that? Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 15:00, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- I don't appreciate the false accusation of canvassing, as I have only pinged the two confirmed users who have participated in this discussion. Makeandtoss (talk) 13:40, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- The cat is a subcat of Islamic terrorism in Lebanon, which already contains H (idk whether it should, I don't like cats). So seems redundant anyway. Selfstudier (talk) 12:31, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- It's the other way around - Islamic terrorism in Lebanon is a subcat of this. But yeah, that makes sense, we only need the more specific sub category. Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 12:35, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Now I am wondering if we should add the state terrorism category to Israel. Makeandtoss (talk) 13:45, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- There is the State-sponsored terrorism cat which includes Terrorism by (various countries), you could probably add one for Israel. Selfstudier (talk) 15:04, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- State terrorism and state-sponsored terrorism are both possibilities, I wonder how much RS support there is for applying those labels to Israel. I can think of examples of both but I'm not an RS. My guess is there is also enough RS support for categorizing Hezbollah as terrorism and state-sponsored terrorism by Iran, but I've never looked it up. Levivich (talk) 18:28, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- There is the State-sponsored terrorism cat which includes Terrorism by (various countries), you could probably add one for Israel. Selfstudier (talk) 15:04, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Now I am wondering if we should add the state terrorism category to Israel. Makeandtoss (talk) 13:45, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- It's the other way around - Islamic terrorism in Lebanon is a subcat of this. But yeah, that makes sense, we only need the more specific sub category. Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 12:35, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- I think you are confusing labeling Hezbollah as a terrorist organization with categorizing this article as relevant to the category of terrorism in Lebanon, It is not the same thing. Is there a specific reason why you are only inviting people who support your position to this discussion? @user:Prodrummer619 Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 12:29, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Kentucky Rain24: Your edit was reverted because it is POV of certain nations. Now after you have been notified that there are three opposers, and that is enough of a reason to self-revert. Pinging @Selfstudier: and @Sean.hoyland: who have commented on this bit. Makeandtoss (talk) 12:23, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- That someone opposes an edit I made is not enough of a reason to revert my edits. There's also someone who support it. Check oy the Terrorism in Lebanon article - there are whole paragraphs there about Hezbollah's activities. Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 11:56, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Kentucky Rain24: It is indeed not related to your recent edit, but related to the content of your recent edit, and that is the addition of a terrorism category. Please self-revert now that you are aware that there is more opposition than support to your edit. Makeandtoss (talk) 10:16, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- I don't think the above discussion from months ago is related to my recent edit. Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 15:28, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Nope, and shouldn't have to respond to non EC speechifying, either. Selfstudier (talk) 11:49, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
Hezbollah’s secret service is not one of the best and it shouldn’t be said so in Wikipedia
[edit]In the secret service part it says: Hezbollah's secret services have been described as "one of the best in the world" what is the source for this Statement? 77.137.73.45 (talk) 17:15, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
- Statements in Wikipedia should have sources. Sources can be seen via the [.] symbol next to a statement.
- The source in this case is apparently...
- Engeland, Dr Anisseh Van; Rudolph, Ms Rachael M (2013). From Terrorism to Politics. Ashgate Publishing, Ltd. pp. 33–34. ISBN 978-1-4094-9870-4.
- The statement is from page 33, in the chapter written by Van Engeland, Associate Professor of International Security & Law, titled "Hezbollah: from a Terrorist Group to a Political Party - Social Work as a Key to Politics"
- Sean.hoyland (talk) 17:52, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 July 2024
[edit]The notion that Hezbollah is just a political party is a complete joke. It is a recognized terrorist group by United States, France, Israel, Germany, UK and others. Furthermore, emphasizing the handful of instances in which Hezbollah decided to “condemn” acts of targeting civilians is a complete joke. This article is sickeningly false, anti-Semitic and pro-Terrorism. - Mention that Hezbollah failed to condemn the targeting of civilians including burning them alive in their homes, kidnapping unarmed civilians including babies under official orders and rape potentially unofficially ordered of October 7th. - Mention their numerous terrorist attacks on Civilians if you mention their so-called condemnation of civilian targeting. Including their recent murder of 14+ children playing soccer no where near any military targets. The only one mentioned is their targeting of a Jewish Synagogue in Argentina over 30 years ago… they’ve committed countless acts of intentional killing but I suppose those don’t count because it was of Jews. 97.113.140.220 (talk) 22:53, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the
{{Edit extended-protected}}
template. — Czello (music) 22:58, 27 July 2024 (UTC)- Agreed. Also, the article needs to make it clear that Hezbollah is a creature and proxy of Iranian regime. SelfOwnedCat (talk) 04:38, 29 July 2024 (UTC)