Informal venue for resolving content disputes
"WP:DRN" redirects here. For the "Deny Recognition" essay, see
WP:DNR.
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| Welcome to the dispute resolution noticeboard (DRN)
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This is an informal place to resolve small content disputes as part of dispute resolution. It may also be used as a tool to direct certain discussions to more appropriate forums, such as requests for comment, or other noticeboards. You can ask a question on the talk page. This is an early stop for most disputes on Wikipedia. You are not required to participate, however, the case filer must participate in all aspects of the dispute or the matter will be considered failed. Any editor may volunteer! Click this button  to add your name! You don't need to volunteer to help. Please feel free to comment below on any case. Be civil and remember; Maintain Wikipedia policy: it is usually a misuse of a talk page to continue to argue any point that has not met policy requirements. Editors must take particular care adding information about living persons to any Wikipedia page. This may also apply to some groups.
Noticeboards should not be a substitute for talk pages. Editors are expected to have had extensive discussion on a talk page (not just through edit summaries) to work out the issues before coming to DRN.
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Would you like to help?
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If we can't help you, a volunteer will point you in the right direction. Discussions should be civil, calm, concise, neutral, objective and as nice as possible.
- This noticeboard is for content disputes only. Comment on the contributions, not the contributors. Off-topic or uncivil behavior may garner a warning, improper material may be struck-out, collapsed, or deleted, and a participant could be asked to step back from the discussion.
- We cannot accept disputes that are already under discussion at other content or conduct dispute resolution forums or in decision-making processes such as Requests for comments, Articles for deletion, or Requested moves.
- The dispute must have been recently discussed extensively on a talk page (not just through edit summaries) to be eligible for help at DRN.
- Ensure that you deliver a notice to each person you add to the case filing by leaving a notice on their user talk page. DRN has a notice template you can post to their user talk page by using the code shown here: {{subst:drn-notice}}. Be sure to sign and date each notice with four tildes (~~~~). Giving notice on the article talk page in dispute or relying on linking their names here will not suffice.
- Do not add your own formatting in the conversation. Let the moderators (DRN Volunteers) handle the formatting of the discussion as they may not be ready for the next session.
- Follow moderator instructions There will be times when the moderator may issue an instruction. It is expected of you to follow their instruction and you can always ask the volunteer on their talk page for clarification, if not already provided. Examples are about civility, don't bite the newcomers, etc.
If you need help:
If you need a helping hand just ask a volunteer, who will assist you.
- This is not a court with judges or arbitrators that issue binding decisions: we focus on resolving disputes through consensus, compromise, and advice about policy.
- For general questions relating to the dispute resolution process, please see our FAQ page.
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We are always looking for new volunteers and everyone is welcome. Click the volunteer button above to join us, and read over the volunteer guide to learn how to get started. Being a volunteer on this page is not formal in any respect, and it is not necessary to have any previous dispute resolution experience. However, having a calm and patient demeanor and a good knowledge of Wikipedia policies and guidelines is very important. It's not mandatory to list yourself as a volunteer to help here, anyone is welcome to provide input.
Volunteers should remember:
- Volunteers should gently and politely help the participant fix problems. Suggest alternative venues if needed. Try to be nice and engage the participants.
- Volunteers do not have any special powers, privileges, or authority in DRN or in Wikipedia, except as noted here. Volunteers who have had past dealings with the article, subject matter, or with the editors involved in a dispute which would bias their response must not act as a volunteer on that dispute. If any editor objects to a volunteer's participation in a dispute, the volunteer must either withdraw or take the objection to the DRN talk page to let the community comment upon whether or not the volunteer should continue in that dispute.
- Listed volunteers open a case by signing a comment in the new filing. When closing a dispute, please mark it as "closed" in the status template (see the volunteer guide for more information), remove the entire line about 'donotarchive' so that the bot will archive it after 48 with no other edits.
Open/close quick reference
- To open, replace {{DR case status}} with {{DR case status|open}}
- To close, replace the "open" with "resolved", "failed", or "closed". Add {{DRN archive top|reason=(reason here) ~~~~}} beneath the case status template, and add {{DRN archive bottom}} at the bottom of the case. Remember to remove the DoNotArchive bit line (the entire line).
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If you would like a regularly-updated copy of this status box on your user page or talk page, put {{DRN case status}} on your page. Click on that link for more options.
Last updated by FireflyBot (talk) at 01:00, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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Current disputes[edit]
– General close. See comments for reasoning.
| Closed discussion
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- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Have you discussed this on a talk page?
Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.
Location of dispute
Users involved
Dispute overview
The page includes no conspiracies related to anti-feminism, lgbtq issues, or fandom/celebrity conspiracies despite them being well-documented elsewhere on the site. This is a clear gender bias on the page that prioritizes conspiracies created by and for cishet men and erases gender/sexuality marginalization as well as communities formed by women & gender/sexual minorities. Via his own profile page, user Slatersteven who reversed even preliminary edits of this issue seems to not be informed of or interested in learning about these conspiracies before deleting all edits made to the page.
How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_conspiracy_theories
How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?
Page needs to be investigated to determine whether the assessment of gender bias on the page is accurate.
Summary of dispute by Slatersteven[edit]
Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.
And only one was added, relativity (if not totally) minor one Larries. We can't have every conspiracy theory that has ever existed, so we need to choose only major and/or long-lasting ones. Also the users wp:rightgreatwrongs attitude is an issue.
Nor is there an attempt to "erases gender/sexuality marginalization as well as communities formed by women & gender/sexual minorities", hell I have even said that Gay agenda may well be valid for inclusion. Also at least one of the "conspiracy theories" they wanted to add is not one. It is just a group that believes in a specific conspiracy theory (and so that is the one that should be added). Slatersteven (talk) 16:30, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- I added larries first merely to test the waters about additions to the page, and because I am very familiar with the community. It IS major and long-lasting - the Larry conspiracy theory has been ongoing for 12 years. H-influenzae (talk) 16:36, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- I have experience on Wikipedia editing as a queer person - I did not want to spend hours arguing about anti-gay conspiracy theories needing admission when testing the waters to see if anything related to queer spaces could be added did just fine to figure out that people sit on the page and don't like additions. H-influenzae (talk) 16:38, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
And I would ask you to wp:agf and lay of the wp:pa. Slatersteven (talk) 16:47, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- But are you editing in good faith? It seems I am only asked to assume good faith when someone is completely dismissing what I have to say because they feel they own the page, which is supposedly antithetical to how Wikipedia is supposed to work. H-influenzae (talk) 17:16, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- It's true that Wikipedia is not for righting great wrongs; however, the page including both the conspiracy of white genocide and New Coke suggests it is a place to discuss conspiracies both of the social justice and "trivial" variety, and there is very clearly an imbalance about the types of conspiracies that you believe should be allowed on the page. I do not think the list of conspiracies on the page should be infinite, but reverting the addition of something you feel is too trivial before you even researched it suggests a feeling of ownership over the page which is also not acceptable for an open source website for sharing information. H-influenzae (talk) 17:14, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough. Slatersteven (talk) 17:03, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
They continue to add the material. Slatersteven (talk) 12:07, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I agree, but it may be moot now. Slatersteven (talk) 14:49, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
List of conspiracy theories discussion[edit]
Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.
Volunteer Note First- all participants are reminded to not discuss the dispute before a volunteer opens this page. Unfortunately, due to personal issues, I cannot commit to mediating at this time (I will be without internet from tomorrow for 5 days). Next- there are a lot of behavior issue accusations being tossed around- these are not to be handled on this board. Before a volunteer agrees to take the case- all involved users must agree that these issues are not really the problem and it is indeed a content issue. If all involved editors agree to this, a mediator will begin the process as soon as possible. Nightenbelle (talk) 17:01, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- I have no personal issues with Slatersteven outside of him being the person who reverted my edits. This IS purely a content issue - the page contains no conspiracies about the topics I mentioned while at the same time containing many conspiracies that are less serious or that people have never even heard of. Slatersteven did not even allow me to make substantial edits, or research the edits I did make, before reverting them and telling me they were irrelevant. He clearly lacks the expertise on these issues to dismiss them so quickly.H-influenzae (talk) 17:10, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Volunteer Note – First, the filing editor says that the page needs to be investigated to determine whether the assessment of gender bias on the page is accurate. If I agree to mediate this dispute, I have no intention of investigating a claim of gender bias, only of discussing whether to add certain other conspiracy theories to the page. If the filing editor wants a more general investigation, they will have to go somewhere else. Second, the filing editor is making various statements about Slatersteven, such as that they lack the expertise to dismiss certain issues. A rule of this noticeboard is to comment on content, not contributors, and to discuss edits, not editors. If I agree to mediate this dispute, the filing editor will have to focus on topics that should or should not be included, not on who does or doesn't want them. Third, will the filing editor list specific conspiracy theories that they want added to the page?
Robert McClenon (talk) 18:14, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Zeroth statement by moderator on conspiracies[edit]
I will try to mediate this dispute, but only if the editors agree to accept my moderation with my ground rules. Please read the rules. I will ask you to read them again, so I am only asking you to read them once at this time. We will only discuss the content of the article, not other editors, and we will only discuss specific changes to the article. We will not discuss whether the article is biased, unless you wish to correct a bias by adding or subtracting something. Do the editors agree to a moderated discussion of specific article content? Please reply below with a yes or no. You may optionally state what you want to change in the article. Robert McClenon (talk) 23:10, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Zeroth statements by editors on conspiracies[edit]
- The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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– Discussion in progress.Have you discussed this on a talk page?
Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.
Location of dispute
Users involved
Dispute overview
The dispute is regarding the addition of the Bengali Karana connection as described in the two most essential scriptures (that enlisted castes, local to Bengal) in the Bengali Kayastha article. According to most sources, there was an unavoidable connection between these two. Some schools of thought regard these two as identical and claim 'Kayastha' is a remolded appellation of 'Karana,' Some other schools of thought claim that Karana merged themselves into the Kayastha. But these all scholars accepted that in epigraphic evidence as well as in the earliest scriptures of Bengal which enlisted these caste groups had taken both synonymously. Currently, the complete information is missing in the Bengali Kayastha article.
Sources:- I prepared a Draft version regarding the origin of the community. Reliable sources are already cited there. However here I am providing some other reliable sources 1. quote- "Whatever the case in early times, in Bengal up to about the ninth or tenth century Karana and Kayastha were considered to be synonymous. In Bengal, the Karanas gradually became subsumed under the name Kāyastha, although
we have noted that in the Bengali inscriptions of about the Gupta and post-Gupta era the word Käyastha was used as frequently as
the word Karana. Generally, it can be said without doubt that in the inscriptions of this period Käyastha is not a word denoting any caste
or sub-caste, but one signifying a profession; the Kāyasthas had not developed in this period into the caste or sub-caste which they
comprise today." Ray, Niharranjan, History of the Bengali People, p. 175.
2. quote- "Figuring repeatedly in copper plates of Bengal from the 5th century CE onwards, the Kayastha emerged to immense prominence in the early medieval Bengal society. The Kayastha, often synonymous with the term Karana in Bengal inscriptions, is known since the early historical times as the scribe or the clerk."- Furui, Ryosuke (2018). "Social Life: Issues of Varṇa-Jāti System". In Chowdhury, Abdul Momin; Chakravarti, Ranabir (eds.). History of Bangladesh: Early Bengal in Regional Perspectives (up to c. 1200 CE). Vol. 2: Society, Economy & Culture. Dhaka: Asiatic Society of Bangladesh. p. 62. However, He is silent about the Kayastha-Karana connection. Apart from these reliable sources are cited in the draft version. Quotes if needed would be provided here. Sanyal, Sharma, and Ralph W. Nicholas have taken Karana and Kayastha identical. Majumdar claims Karana merged themselves with Kayastha, however, he accepted that in epigraphic evidence and literary sources both are synonymous.
How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?
How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?
The missing information is essential and should be included in the article. One of the experienced and neutral editors LukeEmily, a specialist in editing Indian caste-related articles has fixed goals in To do list section to improve the article. The Karana-Kayastha connection is also present in this. However, Ekdalian is opposing (at least a section) it by providing a previous consensus. The dispute should be resolved as early as possible by providing a reasonable solution to this. thanks.
Summary of dispute by Ekdalian[edit]
As I have mentioned several times on the relevant talk page, we have a separate article on Karan Kayasthas/
Karan (caste), and we need to incorporate relevant information about the Karans/Karanas of Bengal under a separate section there. IMHO, we need to do is divide the article on Karan caste into regions like Bengal, Odisha, etc, and mention the relevant details there under Bengal. Since we have a separate article on the Karan caste, we should add relevant details there itself as per convention. Further, Karans and Kayasthas are mostly considered as distinct castes, though may be somewhat related, which may again be a subject of debate, as per speculations based on reliable sources! Can you please provide the sources
Satnam2408, like LukeEmily mentioned. Thanks.
Ekdalian (
talk) 18:04, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
[reply]Summary of dispute by LukeEmily[edit]
I dont know much about these communities but will suggest that we follow the geneeral rule.If reliable sources show any relation between the two communities it could be mentioned IMHO unless it is a fringe opinion that modern scholars dispute. This is a little confusing and needs someone who has more context to understand the academic consensus. EkDalian, can the connection be mentioned on both pages (Karan Kayastha and Bengali Kayastha)? Was Karana a caste or profession? What is the difference between Karan Kayastha of Bengal and Bengali Kayasthas? Also, please can you check "National Integration in Historical Perspective:By Rabindra Nath Chakraborty , page 121-124? Thanks,
LukeEmily (
talk) 22:59, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
[reply]Summary of dispute by Chanchaldm[edit]
Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.
Bengali Kayastha discussion[edit]
Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.
First statement by moderator, Kayastha[edit]
Three of the four editors have responded. Discussion can be conducted with two or more editors. I will act as moderator. Please read the usual rules. Then read the rules, again. If there are any questions about the rules, please ask them now rather than guessing. Be civil and concise. Overly long statements make the poster feel better, but do not communicate as well as shorter statements. Do not engage in back-and-forth discussion. Address your comments to me and the community. The purpose of discussion is to improve the article, so we will try to define exactly what the content issues are. If there are questions about the reliability of sources, they can be stated, and then asked at the Reliable Source Noticeboard.
I will ask each editor to state, in one or two paragraphs, what they want changed in the article, or what they want left the same that another editor wants changed. Also, separately, state any questions about the reliability of sources. After we have identified the article content issues and source reliability issues, we will decide how to proceed further. Robert McClenon (talk) 00:33, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
First statements by editors, Kayastha[edit]
– General close. See comments for reasoning.
– New discussion.Have you discussed this on a talk page?
Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.
Location of dispute
Users involved
Dispute overview
The article on Lavender oil as I found it claimed there was no evidence that Lavender oil could treat anxiety or insomnia. The citation for this was a "drugs.com" article that didn't actually make any such claim, so I edited the article to reflect "drugs.com"'s actual content.
However I then noticed that the "drugs.com" article only cited very old articles, the newest of which was from 2018. So I added the findings of a 2019 meta-analysis to the Wikipedia article. This was then immediately removed as an "unreliable source" despite being from the 7th most cited journal in the world.
Attempts to engage in conversation with the user who reverted the changes was simply met with more unexplained requests for a "better source" and also conceding that the current "drugs.com" citation is not a good source for the claims being defended either.
How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?
[1]
How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?
Provide guidance on if any of the multiple peer-reviewed research articles I mentioned on lavender oil (and others that exist), as well as the "drugs.com" article should be included in the Wikipedia article.
Help decide which sources discussed thus far should be considered appropriate for this article.
Possible help in finding a new source if none of the existing ones are up to standard.
Summary of dispute by Alexbrn[edit]
Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.
Summary of dispute by Zefr[edit]
Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.
Although a meta-analysis, the 2019 source suggested by the IP editor covers weak primary research in 5 studies, 4 of which were by the same German author in journals of dubious quality. A review of weak research is still a weak source for the encyclopedia. The original edit by the IP was far too detailed and overstated from such a weak review. The previous version concerning the use of oral lavender oil for anxiety was There is no good evidence to support the use of lavender oil for treating dementia or anxiety, which is true and supported by the Drugs.com review (updated in Oct 2021), which stated concerns about the research on oral Silexan for anxiety: the presence of significant heterogeneity, lack of blinding, small sample sizes, and small number of studies (4 of which were by the same author) limit extrapolation of the results. Overall, the 2019 review by Yap et al. is unconvincing as a source, and leaves us with the conclusion there is no good evidence for using oral lavender oil to treat anxiety. Further, there is no WP:MEDSCI source to indicate any clinical organization recommends such treatment. Zefr (talk) 20:42, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Lavender oil discussion[edit]
Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.
- Volunteer Note - There has been discussion at the article talk page, but it has only been conducted for a few hours. The discussion should continue for at least 24 hours. If discussion continues to be inconclusive, a volunteer can open a case for moderated discussion. Robert McClenon (talk) 23:39, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
– General close. See comments for reasoning.
– General close. See comments for reasoning.
– Discussion in progress.
– New discussion.