Corsa Specialised Vehicles (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (restore)

There was no discussion at all or feedback/opportunity provided on what needed to be addressed even with a second revised version of the above page. The detailed content in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Corsa_Specialised_Vehicles (which contained verifiable/genuine/reliable automotive and company register sources) appears to have been ignored in toto. No replies from either the speedy deletion nominator (Nicky_mathew) or the deletor (RHaworth) who (scandalously?) proclaims on his homepage that he bites/targets "newbies" and may have a habit of deleting pages without explanation? Surely that in itself lacks collegiality? Corsa Specialised Vehicles (CSV) is (and definitely has been between 1994 and 2007) a bona fide independent Australian manufacturer in the same mold as the Australian Holden Special Vehicles (HSV) and Tickford Vehicle Engineering or American AC Cobra or German Mercedes-AMG and it is bewildering that the aforementioned people with no apparent automotive knowledge or local (Australian) knowledge can determine a lack of notoriety, even in the face of the scanned articles placed on the talk page. If other specific issues were at fault, why did neither extend a helping hand and point these out? Again, where is the collegiality? Also, why is this topic protrected from creation now? No opportunity was also ever given to involve any wiki users that are part of the Australian automotive community, responsible for the type of article deleted here. Key points:

• This is the cover page of a main Australian automotive magazine in 1994 (Motor magazine) acknowledging the existence and testing the first ever CSV car (in blue) against its HSV rival (in white) http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxMjAw/z/nnkAAOxyUrZSykxE/$_57.JPG
• This is the last page of the above test, clearly listing the CSV as a separate car http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/nxQAAOxyUrZSykxQ/$_57.JPG
• This is a sample online article of CSV's last creation http://www.motoring.com.au/reviews/2008/large-passenger/holden-special-vehicles/gts/csv-gts-ls7-5794 (used as a reference in the deleted article, along with others)
• The automotive bible for all cars produced is http://www.redbook.com.au and a search for the make/brand "CSV" will list some 114 models built by this small-scale independent manufacturer
• An "Organisation and Business Names" search for "Corsa Specialised Vehicles" via the Australian "Companies and Organisations" registers at http://www.asic.gov.au will also confirm this is a company established a long time ago in 1994 and subsequent automotive articles to the above also describe CSV cars as Australia's fastest production cars at their time, thus defeating the nominator and deletor's unsustantiated claims of lack of notoriety - to them, not Australians

Apologies if any of this is wrong - I am a newbie. CtrlXctrlV (talk) 10:05, 21 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Overturn and list at AFD, I might be going out on a limb here, but having looked at the article it's not blatant enough for G11, and there are claims of importance in there which render A7 moot. I doubt it'll survive AFD due to the lack of secondary sources, but speedy deletion was a bit too heavy a hammer to use here I think. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 11:59, 21 June 2015 (UTC).[reply]

Thanks Lankiveil, I will have to find out more about AFD... meanwhile, I note Nicky_mathew (the instigator) corrupting other articles where CSV cars are mentioned. If only these users could provide guidance on what the new article requires, their concerns and wiki requirements could be met afterall. As an aside, another similar manufacturer but in Germany would be AC_Schnitzer and here's another magazine cover (thanks to an eBay Australia auction) "celebrating 10 years of Corsas" in June 2014 - see http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxMjAw/z/a5IAAOSwbqpT5fhA/$_57.JPG - p.s. just to add to the aburdity of this, attempts to edit the article while under review are NOT possible because it is locked... not helpful. CtrlXctrlV (talk) 13:27, 21 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Overturn and list at AFD. Both speedy criteria are a stretch. A7 definitely doesn't apply in this case. Mackensen (talk) 15:00, 21 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks to you too Mackensen.

• List at AFD agreed this would be better with the benefit of a full discussion. However, the attacks on the editors who tagged the article are totally inappropriate and I strongly suggest striking that part of the text. ("no apparent automotive knowledge"... how on earth could you claim to know that about someone?) Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 18:30, 21 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Overturn and list at AfD. The article asserted importance and was not "unambiguous advertising or promotion" based on the Google cache.

  There are numerous sources about the subject from Motor magazine. See http://connection.ebscohost.com/search?kwp=Corsa+Specialised+Vehicles^WebCite. Here are several:

  1. Bulmer, Ged (November 1999). "Motor mouth". Motor: 9. Archived from the original on 2015-06-22. Retrieved 2015-06-22.

     The abstract:

     Focuses on Corsa Specialised Vehicles chief executive officer Peter Dichiera's career in the automobile industry. Dichiera's involvement in street and strip racing in the 1970s; Reputation as a car designer; Personality traits; Dichiera's plans for the company.

  2. "300kW for Corsa Commodore". Motor. 43 (11): 9. April 1996. Archived from the original on 2015-06-22. Retrieved 2015-06-22.

     The abstract:

     Reports that in Australia, Peter Dichiera, of Corsa Specialised Vehicles, has set the performance benchmark by upgrading the engine package of his CSV 5800i Corsa Commodore.

  3. Page, Ewen. "From the ed". Motor. 44 (2): 5. Archived from the original on 2015-06-22. Retrieved 2015-06-22.

     The abstract:

     Focuses on developments related to automobile industry in Australia. Peter Dichiera's development of his Corsa Specialised Vehicles 5800i automobile; Return of inventiveness in the industry.

  4. "The other 7.0-litre Commodores". Motor: 44. July 2008. Archived from the original on 2015-06-22. Retrieved 2015-06-22.

     The abstract:

     The article evaluates several Commodore cars from Holden Special Vehicles (HSV) including Monaro 427, HRT 427C and Corsa Specialised Vehicles LS7.

  Here also is a source from Wheels (magazine):
  1. Hawley, Jonathan (December 2007). "CSV GTS LS7". Wheels. Archived from the original on 2015-06-22. Retrieved 2015-06-22.

     The article refers to Corsa Specialised Vehicles as "CSV" throughout the article.

  There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Corsa Specialised Vehicles to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".

  Cunard (talk) 01:49, 22 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Overturn, with optional AfD - the A7 is transparently bogus; the sources in the article are sufficient to plausibly meet WP:N, which puts it effectively infinitely far away from A7. The G11 is tougher - there are some writing problems, but probably not enough to require a fundamental rewrite. However, invoking A7 indicated the deleting admin was at best grossly negligent in the deletion, which makes me disinclined to give their sketchy G11 decision much leeway. If someone wants to make a deletion argument at AfD, let 'em, but I don't see any value in procedural listings for their own sake. WilyD 08:04, 22 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Overturn and list at AFD. The decision seems to be to be placing the bar unreasonably high. Stifle (talk) 08:42, 22 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Aside from another thanks to those of you above that have taken the time to have their say on this (I appreciate those additional sources), still waiting for the page to be re-published. Concerning my claim of a lack of motoring knowledge on the deletor's part, it was based on noticing no automotive input in their contributions list. Be that as it may, happy to retract that comment once the deleted page is republished and perhaps the deletor providing input on any necessary partial rewrite. It is not easy being a newbie sometimes. CtrlXctrlV (talk) 11:24, 22 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Just read on the deletor's talk page "I might have been willing but CtrlXctrlV descends into unnecessary personal observations so the discussion can run its course as far as I am concerned". Happy to wait but perplexed at process being overridden by emotions? Anyone taking offence at my observations as a newbie, feel free to delete them or direct me to... at the end of the day, it's just words on a screen but I guess said words mean more to some than others. CtrlXctrlV (talk) 13:06, 22 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Just on your first comment, generally discussions at Deletion Review last approx. 7 days and the page will not be restored until this discussion is closed. From the way this discussion is going it is likely to be restored and then listed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion, where a disucssion will be held (again for at least 7 days) to decide if the article should be kept or deleted. Davewild (talk) 17:37, 22 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]