The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Pamzeis (talk) 11:42, 9 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Marmen Quartet (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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Band which has won a couple of competitions but neither of them major (see WP:NMUSIC). No recording contract, reviewed performances, mainstream coverage etc etc. Paul ❬talk❭ 10:45, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Paul ❬talk❭ 10:45, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. Paul ❬talk❭ 10:45, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Sorry, I can't see why the reviewer considers these competitions not to be major. The Banff International String Quartet Competition is one of the 2 or 3 longest standing and most prestigious competitions in the world in this medium. Can the reviewer justify his opinion please? Could a second opinion be sought from someone with a good knowledge of classical music (it does seem curious for someone to refer to a classical string quartet as a "band", sorry.) They perform regularly at the Wigmore Hall and in other major concert venues. If that isn't notable, how can any classical chamber music ensemble be notable? It seems inappropriate to propose deletion just because nobody has provided a few cross-references to concert reviews in newspapers. Hyperman 42 (talk) 18:41, 1 November 2020 (UTC) Incidentally, the notability criterion that this quartet qualifies under is 9 in WP:NMUSIC. Hyperman 42 (talk) 18:44, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Hyperman, here is what seems like an independent source about the quartet. One or two more of those, using them in the article, and you'd be all set to make the article pass WP:GNG. --Francis Schonken (talk) 20:17, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• This one maybe too. --Francis Schonken (talk) 20:27, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• And this one (rather "local press" but still usable as part of a GNG set of independent sources afaics). --Francis Schonken (talk) 20:41, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• & this one (in German). --Francis Schonken (talk) 20:48, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Another one reporting on the Banff competition finale --Francis Schonken (talk) 20:53, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Another German one --Francis Schonken (talk) 20:56, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• About the quartet's (current) viola player --Francis Schonken (talk) 20:58, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• About winning "Bridge" --Francis Schonken (talk) 21:02, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Another concert review
• ... and there's surely more. All in all enough independent reliable sources: if you use the best of these in the article there shouldn't be a problem notability-wise. Whether or not it passes a particular NMUSIC criterion will by then be of less importance while it passes GNG with flying colors. --Francis Schonken (talk) 21:08, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hyperman 42, you thanked me for my last edit above, but please keep in mind that the actual work still has to be done. As is, that is with no more than two references, neither of which counts as "independent" in a GNG logic (e.g. neither the quartet's website, nor the Banff website can be used to establish that Banff is an important competition: it is, but sources self-published by the quartet or by the Banff competition can't be used to establish that), the article still fails notability. So, please, get started: summarize content from independent reliable sources, and add it to the article with a reference to these sources. As long as more than (approx.) 50% of the article's content is exclusively referenced to non-independent sources there continues to be a notability problem. I haven't !voted in this AfD yet, but based on the current state of the article my !vote would need to be "delete". I might be postponing my !vote still a few days, but unless the article's content & references have improved significantly by then, I'd rather have to suggest a "delete with WP:REFUND option" when I do cast my !vote. --Francis Schonken (talk) 07:46, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. (ec) Referring to a string quartet as a "band" is strange: the repertoire they perform is part of classical music (Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Debussy, etc). Winning competitions in international competitions is extremely relevant, and two of these are listed (and easy to verify). Venues, such as the Wigmore Hall and the Barbican, are amongst the top in the UK. The quartet were scheduled to play at numerous venues in Britain, Europe and NZ over this year (e.g. at the Berlin Philharmonie) but corona virus has resulted in many cancellations. The first violinist, Johannes Marmén, also plays with other instrumental groups; he has been recorded by Hyperion Records with works composed by himself as well as arrangements of pieces by John Lennon and George Harrison. Mathsci (talk) 20:30, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Reviews should be added directly to the article where appropriate; the Crawley Observer (listed above) is a red link. Mathsci (talk) 21:11, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've looked at various sources, rejigging some of the material and adding content that comes from music journals like The Strad and Diapason. Unsurprisingly large numbers of events were cancelled or postponed this year. What is surprising, however, is that during September, with suitable precautions, there were live performances at 4 different venues in Germany and Austria. Mathsci (talk) 11:54, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per sources adduced by Francis Schonken. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 01:07, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as per the multiple reliable sources identified in this discussion and added to the article that show a pass of WP:GNG so that deletion is unnecessary in my view, Atlantic306 (talk) 21:52, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.