Since the last topic ban from DYK on 5 May, [1], Venkat TL has been doing mass page moves despite a couple of warnings to stop it. The first warning was mild and another warning was final. However, none of these warnings helped Venkat TL to stop.

In just 1 month, Venkat TL has made over 16,000 such page moves that are nothing but WP:DE because his page moves have no basis other than a "proposed" convention over which multiple editors have disagreed with Venkat TL.[2]

The participants of the last ANI thread assumed that this user's disruption won't stop with just a topic ban from DYK.[3] I agree they were correct. Srijanx22 (talk) 16:47, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Context thread: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Indian_politics#Constituency_titles
• This was debated for 7 months at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/India-related articles.
• Another 4 months of debate occurred at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Indian_politics#Constituency_titles
• This proposal came out after above debates and discussions at WikiProject India and WikiProject Indian politics. Please refer to the Proposal thread at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Indian politics#Proposal_:_Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_Indian_constituencies
• The proposal was advertised as advised by the the debate participants of that time at WP:Noticeboard for India#Assembly_constituencies_article_title, |WP:Noticeboard for India# Proposal : Wikipedia:Naming conventions Indian constituencies. Along with Wikiproject talk pages of all Indian states and major cities, like WikiProject Delhi#Proposal : Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_Indian_constituencies [4] [5] and so on.
• A previous discussion at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/India-related articles where this discussion had occurred in past was also notified duly. At that time 'all places where I could think of, and others could think of, were notified.
• After 2 months of voting on the proposal there was a Consensus with 7 supports and one oppose. After the discussion had petered out with clear consensus, The proposal was implemented accordingly. --Venkat TL (talk) 17:15, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

But still none of this fulfilled the actual requirement you were told about some 11 days ago[6] which you recognized[7] but you are still continuing your page moves without fulfilling the requirement. Srijanx22 (talk) 17:25, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• On different occasions, by different editors, Venkat TL was reminded that propsal is not formally closed, and it is not a policy yet. They were also asked to stop moving pages. They should have stopped. —usernamekiran (talk) 17:22, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Further context: Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Proposal for new article title naming convention - RfC or local consensus, Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)/Archive 189#Wikipedia:Naming Conventions, and Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Indian constituencies) — especially the two RMs. —usernamekiran (talk) 17:30, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • After your !Vote I, put the implementation on hold, stopped moving new pages and focused on fixing the disambiguation pages. There was no votes in those threads for another 10 days, so I re-started the moves yesterday.
  • I also noticed that you were admin shopping 12 days ago and have older axes to grind. Venkat TL (talk) 17:43, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

    @Venkat TL no votes doesn't mean it is ok to just go ahead and do whatever you think it is ok. let someone close the discussions and move on from there. You were jumping the gun. – robertsky (talk) 17:48, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

    Look, the proposal had been open for 2 months and had clear consensus, which is why I proceeded. In my opinion 2 months is a good long time for an open discussion to judge the consensus. that said, I have no problem to wait for another 2 months. I will not make any more moves. Venkat TL (talk) 17:53, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  @Venkat TL: you still havent answered why you started moving pages again. You were very well aware that the proposal was contested. There is difference between not badgering, and going unresponsive/avoiding scrutiny. It is looking like you are doing the latter. —usernamekiran (talk) 18:52, 27 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  My openening comment in that thread was "Hi. If there is an RfC regarding a policy change, and it is tainted, what will be the appropriate venue to ask for a procedural close? Given the editor who started it is retired. AN, or ANRFC? —usernamekiran (talk) 19:01, 11 May 2022 (UTC) I was asking for next appropriate step. That is not admin shopping at all. I didn't even mention you, or the RfC. —usernamekiran (talk) 17:55, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Venkat TL Can you explain the moves from, for example, Chittorgarh (Lok Sabha constituency) to Chittorgarh Lok Sabha constituency. Because the former looks natural to me. If you can supply reliable sources that show that the latter is the well known form, then everything is OK. If you can't, then we have a major problem. Black Kite (talk) 18:30, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Black Kite, you are asking to discuss content dispute here. It would be off topic, but since you have asked, here you go. Please look at the quotes below from reliable sources. Please refer to the explanation of WP:NATURAL that I have made on the proposal page (link). These quotes below show how the constituency is commonly referred to in mainstream reliable sources.

• If a Rajput candidate is fielded in the adjoining Chittorgarh Lok Sabha constituency, chances are a Brahmin would be fielded here and vice-versa. Mar 17, Geetha Sunil Pillai / TNN /. "Rajsamand seat too complicated for caste equations | Jaipur News - Times of India". The Times of India. Retrieved 23 May 2022.{{cite news}}: CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list (link)

• Chittorgarh Lok Sabha constituency comprises of following Vidhan Sabha (legislative assembly) segments. "Chittorgarh Lok Sabha Constituency, Rajasthan: Current MP, Candidates, Polling Date and Election Results". Newsd.in. Retrieved 23 May 2022.

• Ladpura and Ramganj Mandi Assembly seats were added from Chittorgarh Lok Sabha seat in 2008. "Lok Sabha Election 2019, Rajasthan profile: With BJP having all seats, Congress faces tough fight ahead; Bikaner, Dausa key seats-Politics News , Firstpost". Firstpost. 4 April 2019. Retrieved 23 May 2022.

• Vallabhnagar and Mavli Assembly seats were moved to Chittorgarh Lok Sabha constituencyin 2008. "Lok Sabha Election 2019, Phase 4 today: State-wise guide to constituencies going to polls and election schedule-Politics News , Firstpost". Firstpost. 29 April 2019. Retrieved 23 May 2022.

Venkat TL (talk) 18:41, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Black Kite I may have not pinged correctly in my reply. Venkat TL (talk) 18:52, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Chittorgarh is the name of a geographical entity (a settlement). "Chittorgarh Lok Sabha constituency" is the name of the entity related to elections. The border of the geographical entity is never the same as the Lok Sabha constituency, though they may have some overlap. The bit "Lok Sabha constituency" is not just an attribute, it is an essential part of the name. When you just say "Place" for example Chittorgarh, it will be understood as the geographical entity (city), Never as constituency unless you mention it clearly. One has to mandatorily state the full name Chittorgarh Lok Sabha constituency if they are talking about the constituency. The examples from the reliable sources above show this. Wikipedia disambiguation guideline WP:NATURAL says According to the above-mentioned precision criterion, when a more detailed title is necessary to distinguish an article topic from another, use only as much additional detail as necessary... Natural disambiguation: Using an alternative name that the subject is also commonly called in English reliable sources, albeit not as commonly as the preferred-but-ambiguous title...Comma-separated disambiguation. With place names, if the disambiguating term is a higher-level administrative division, it is often separated using a comma instead of parentheses. The suffix "Lok Sabha constituency" or "Assembly constituency" serve as WP:NATURAL disambiguation from the city name, so they do not need to be inside brackets. The parenthesis also add an overhead of extra work to add the piped links whenever using the constituency name in prose. The piping issue due to disambiguation bracket is huge. there are close to 4120 Indian assembly constituencies and 545 Lok Sabha constituencies. Each of them gets linked on an average 100 times on Wikipedia. That is 5,00,000 unnecessary piped links. This is exponential damage and waste of efforts which can be saved by dropping the unnecessary bracket. I face this issue everyday while working on constituency and biography articles. Venkat TL (talk) 07:21, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

erm... So you decided to move thousands of pages while multiple editors had asked you to stop it — because you found the current naming system a little out of your comfort zone during article editing, while knowing it (the moves) will mean editing around 500,000 links? Actually, it is your page moves that are "exponential damage and waste of efforts". This is nothing but WT:DYK incident all over again: proposing changes to policy because you dont like it, not listening to other editors, casting aspersions, battleground behaviour, and now moving thousands of pages even when told to stop. Thats nothing but disruptive behaviour. —usernamekiran (talk) 15:41, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That's my take too. This is simple disruption and unless I see a genuine reason for editing 500,000 links here apart from WP:ILIKEIT, I don't see any other option here but to prevent Venkat TL from causing any more damage. Black Kite (talk) 18:39, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think they have already moved almost all the pages of that field. —usernamekiran (talk) 02:20, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Other than wikipedia and its mirrors, very few sources use brackets (I chose a constituency that has received more coverage). I haven't gone through every category in Category:Constituencies_by_country, but even on Wikipedia, a lot of constituency articles do not use brackets (see for eg, US, Mexico, France, Australia, Srilanka, Philippines) Hemantha (talk) 04:34, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Hemantha: Hello. "appropriate title" is not the main point here. The proposal at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Indian politics#Proposal : Wikipedia:Naming conventions Indian constituencies was disputed at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Indian constituencies)#Proposal state, Venkat TL was aware of that (they participated in the latter discussion), later DaxServer expressed their concerns about the process of the proposal at Proposal for new article title naming convention - RfC or local consensus|village pump - policy. In that discussion there were only four participants including Venkat TL, and three of them were in favour of a fresh RfC. Venkat TL was reminded a few times that the "proposal" was not formally closed yet, a fresh RfC was required, and the proposal wa not accepted/converted as policy yet. Still, Venkat TL performed mass moves, which were being discussed/disputed, that is simply put - not listening to fellow editors (WP:IDHT?), and disruptive. For someone who quotes/brings up policies, guidelines, and essays so often, saying "I did it because there was no participation in a long time" is not acceptable. —usernamekiran (talk) 08:19, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes I think enforcing edits without consensus, ignoring warnings, doing mass moves while ignoring complaints on talk page and denying any wrongdoing even after the complaint here is disruptive and does not guarantee any assurance since enough damage has been already done. Srijanx22 (talk) 04:22, 28 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I see Venkat TL was provided with page mover user right on 15 April 2022 by Swarm. I think this user right should be removed because of the abuse documented in this report. Srijanx22 (talk) 15:45, 30 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

accountability/communication is a very important thing on wikipedia. Not responding here even after a ping shows lack of it. —usernamekiran (talk) 17:10, 30 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Hm, as best as I can tell, per WP:RFCEND Venkat should have formally closed the discussion, but involved users are explicitly allowed to implement a clear consensus themselves in an RfC. I do think that this was the case here. So I don't see the discussion not being closed to be an issue. That leaves the matter of whether the proposal was sufficiently exposed to the community, per WP:AT and WP:PROPOSAL. While the proposal was not advertised at village pump, it was extensively advertised to the community, and that's a pretty strong consideration as well. Mass changes are almost always contentious to some extent, and it's good to have community oversight in these situations. But I do find Venkat's defense here reasonable. ~Swarm~ ^{sting} 02:08, 1 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  I agree with you on the first part. But when the proposal was disputed, and there were suggestions for starting a fresh RfC, at that time Venkat TL should have listned to fellow editors, and should have stopped moving pages. —usernamekiran (talk) 05:55, 1 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  It all boils down to whether the objections were legitimate in the first place, i.e. whether the fact that this wasn't posted to village pump is enough to consider the discussion illegitimate, in spite of extensive community notification efforts. I would say the letter of the law was violated, but the spirit of the law was satisfied. Is that enough? According to WP:NOTBUREAU, WP:5P5, and WP:IAR...yes, actually. This is a complicated situation, Venkat failed to follow the proper procedure of advertising the RfC, he failed to close the RfC and initiated an involved mass move (which, again, is allowed, but a bad look altogether), then didn't stop when objections were raised. On my first reading, I was on the same page as the other outraged admins. I considered immediately revoking PM, even procedurally prior to looking into it, and then I strongly considered blocking. However, after actually vetting Venkat's argument against policy requirements as objectively as possible, everything seems to check out. Venkat TL should implement the formal close since he's already de facto formalized it, but his doing so, in my reading, was allowed.

  I'm not saying the dispute should be considered resolved. Let me be clear, there is never anything preventing you from immediately starting your own RfC with whatever proposal you want, you can do it right now. If a new RfC is needed, then hold a new RfC, and make sure the proper procedures are followed to avoid future drama. The naming dispute clearly is just as alive as ever and I doubt we're going to solve that here. But this is just my response to a ping with a request that Vinkat's PM user rights be revoked. In response to that request, I conclude there is no violation. But this is a community noticeboard, anyone is free to disagree with me. ~Swarm~ ^{sting} 23:28, 1 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  I agree with you on the first part. What I am saying is they should have stopped when multiple editors had asked them to, no matter the reason. As they said above themselves, they stopped for a while, and then resumed it. And then there is their overall attitude. —usernamekiran (talk) 04:35, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  a closure is requested. —usernamekiran (talk) 20:01, 4 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• @Venkat TL: there was nothing sneaky with my edit, stop accusing other editors. You were asked a few questions here, and you were also pinged, yet you didn't respond. But you saw my "sneaky" edit. Would you kindly respond to the questions posed here? —usernamekiran (talk) 08:39, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Venkat TL is now engaging in the same obfuscation at 2022 BJP Muhammad remarks controversy where he is being a lone edit warrior, retaining his POV but opposing the content he does not like.[8] He happens to be throwing a bad argument and then throwing it over and over even after getting rebuked. This has happened multiple times on this particular subject. REDISCOVERBHARAT (talk) 08:21, 11 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  These things bear no relation to one another. Iskandar323 (talk) 17:40, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Bump. Levivich 15:01, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• I can't comment on the procedural element to this, and not following procedure is not great, but (thinking WP:NOTBURO) isn't Venkat 100% right on the actual naming - the use of the brackets just doesn't seem to have any grounding in actual practical usage, and the available sources, short of circular linking back to Wikipedia, appear to entirely validate these page moves. Iskandar323 (talk) 17:50, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  @Iskandar323: Hi. Like I have mentioned in my previous comments in this thread, it is not about the accuracy of article titles. It is about going against consensus. —usernamekiran (talk) 18:32, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  I don't see Venkat clearly going against consensus, only the requests to stop/wait. The RFC, though unclosed, was firmly in support of the changes. Iskandar323 (talk) 19:13, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  yes. But there were at least at least five editors who objected to the moves/RfC. Under such circumstances Venkat TL should have stopped. When the proposal itself was disputed, the firm support to that proposal becomes disputed/immaterial as well. Venkat TL should have stopped. —usernamekiran (talk) 16:10, 15 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  There is no point saying he should have stopped more than 20 days after the fact. Swarm, a veteran perm admin did not find any sanction worthy violation in Venkat TL's actions. Venkat TL is a highly productive editor who has done a lot of good improving Wikipedia's content related to India. I recommend closing this thread as no action necessary. 2409:4071:D0A:78D1:0:0:43C8:108 (talk) 15:15, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Every ANI thread is created after the incident. This one was created soon after the incident. —usernamekiran (talk) 19:21, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  bump —usernamekiran (talk) 22:26, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hello English Wikipedia sysops, I am sorry to write this report in such a hasty way. During the inspection on Chinese wiki, we found that a user 折毛 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has written a lot of false information, and most of his references are fictitious. The local discussion is on [here]. After a cross-wiki check, we found similar problems with her contributions to the English wiki, with the following specific articles --PAVLOV (talk) 15:04, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

with the following specific articles. What articles?--Bbb23 (talk) 15:32, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Siege_of_Borovsk, False Dmitry I#Death and Vasili IV of Russia#Life PAVLOV (talk) 15:37, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Siege_of_Borovsk, couldn't be found on any search engine.

Due to the absence of the corresponding text and the user's previous contribution was a mixture of genuine and fake content, such as hoaxes and original research. We have to request the community to help with the verification process and ask for help from Russian-speaking users and who are familiar with Russian History. Thanks again! PAVLOV (talk) 15:07, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Courtesy @葉又嘉, Antigng, Outlookxp, 如沐西风, and Ericliu1912: those who found 折毛's hoaxes on Chinese Wikipedia. PAVLOV (talk) 15:16, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Siege of Borovsk is a pretty blatant hoax. Someone who was supposed to be killed during that siege wasn't even born, and there were no people of that name being princes during that time. It isn't even a well-crafted hoax and I am astonished that it passed draft review.Lurking shadow (talk) 16:32, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There is ru:Волконский, Михаил Константинович Хромой, who according to the article died in the year and place mentioned. 82.132.185.134 (talk) 16:52, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That was the name in the article, but a link to Mikhail Volkonsky was added by the reviewer in a "cleanup" edit and the Russian name was removed by another editor. 82.132.185.134 (talk) 17:19, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have presumptively removed the content added by 折毛 to the other two articles, since they were specifically named by PAVLOV and could not access the book sources directly. WikiProject Russia has been notified of this discussion because most of 折毛's edits are about Russian history. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 18:56, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Another affected article: Chinese Wikipedia article zh:远东华人强制流配 is created by 折毛, it also passed the FAC on Chinese Wikipedia in 2021. The article was translated into English as Deportation of Chinese in the Soviet Union. Now our community found this articles contains many fictitious information, many informain in this article was not mentioned by the sources it cites (see discussion on Chinese Wikipedia). Since the English article is translated from the Chinese article, the English article may also have this problem, I wish the English community to help with the verification, Thanks a lot! (I am not good at English, I feel sorry if my words are difficult to understand) BlackShadowG (talk) 02:02, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@BlackShadowG Hi, sorry for the interruption. Have you found any other articles be translated from Chinese Wikipedia with hoaxes into here? PAVLOV (talk) 09:30, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't found it yet, and it takes time to check because there are so many affected Chinese articles. BlackShadowG (talk) 06:33, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A summary of the project to remove hoaxes has been created at Wikipedia:Fabricated Articles and Hoaxes of Ancient Russia in 2022 by Beta Lohman (talk · contribs), but the grammar is poor and requires copyediting. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 08:40, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think it is necessary to create such a summary page in this wiki, as this incident has much less influence here. --№.N (talk) 03:58, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• DietCokeFeast (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Pescetarianism (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

DietCokeFeast has been disrupting the pescetarianism article for over a year and other related articles to semi-vegetarianism/vegetarianism and other diets such as the pollotarianism for well over a year. This user refuses to use talk-pages and has ignored many warnings on their user-page and on talk-pages. DietCokeFeast ignores WP:MEDRS and frequently adds original research, personal commentary, primary sources, unreliable blogs and other dubious material as references. The most annoying thing is that when these are removed by other editors this user just re-adds similar sources and never apologizes or engages on the talk-page. The same user also messes up a lot of their edits with poor MOS and templates and bad grammar. It is taking a lot of work to clean up after them. I want to point out this issue has been going on for a year and a half, not a few weeks. Myself and two other users have pinged DietCokeFeast and left them messages but they never respond.

DietCokeFeast has been editing the pescetarianism article since February 2021. In that time practically every edit they have made to the article has been reverted. Occasionally they add a reliable source but the majority of what they add is unreliable. Their over-all productivity is having a bad net influence because their edits leave the article in a worse state than before, they are not improving the article. DietCokeFeast and on another account MemaidenModus tried to re-write large sections of the article twice from a bad POV with many dodgy sources. If you check the editing history of pescetarianism I have not seen any other article quite like it. Usually disruptive editors actually engage talk-page warnings but this user deliberately never responds.

I strongly suspect that DietCokeFeast is the blocked user Zalgo who used many sock-puppets to push the carnivore diet on Wikipedia but has now switched gears and is promoting fish diets. The SPI [9] was stale so could not use CU data but DietCokeFeast at a minimum has been using an IP and another account in the past to edit the pescetarianism article from a POV.

If you check their own talk-page you will see warnings that users have left [10] (I left one in March 2021). The response has been silence from DietCokeFeast, ignoring any advice. The same has happened on multiple talk-pages going back a year. If you check the history of the pescetarianism article you will see a long-history of the bad editing they have done [11]. The same bad editing has spilled out on other diet articles (many others need to be checked), for example they made a mess on the Fried potatoes article adding unreliable material. It is the same thing every time.

If you go back 500 edits on the pescetarianism article [12] you can see how disruptive DietCokeFeast's edits have been. If this issue had been reported sooner I suspect they would have been blocked by now but they have received advice and warnings but do not respond. I believe that this user should been topic-banned from editing anything related to dieting. Psychologist Guy (talk) 23:32, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

We do block people for failure to communicate. I suggest that the option of a block be considered here. The fact that nearly all of DietCokeFeast's edits at Pescetarianism are being reverted (per the above) indicates that their participation on that article is not helpful. I'm leaving them a notice of this ANI. EdJohnston (talk) 03:32, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - If an editor is adding referenced content that is getting reverted, and then adds similar content with a different source, we are in "content dispute territory". There is also the possibility that ownership of an article is being claimed here. I would suggest that either this is thrashed out at talk page or WikiProject level, and I would encourage DietCokeFeast to engage in such a process, or that a thorough examination of all editors' editing needs to be made before the validity of this complaint can be established. Mjroots (talk) 12:42, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It has not been possible to discuss it on the talk-page with DietCokeFeast because they deliberately do not reply. If you check the talk-page of the pescetarianism article including the archive, there have been various attempts to contact and ping DietCokeFeast about their bad editing going back more than a year but they never reply. They just turn up again on the article weeks later adding similar unreliable material. There was a recent SPI against DietCokeFeast and they logged in and and were editing whilst that was going on but never replied even whilst being notified [13] which is odd to say the least. The only message I have seen them type on a talk-page was a bizarre rant here [14] Psychologist Guy (talk) 19:30, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

EdJohnston, would you consider blocking DietCokeFeast? The user logs in but continues to ignore any message on their talk page, pings or article talk-page comments (even about this discussion). DietCokeFeast obviously saw the recent pings and talk-page comments on their own page but yet again ignores and does not respond. It's the same pattern that has been going on for a year and a half. I would point out that DietCokeFeast has yet again added an unreliable primary source to an article [15] this morning, linking to an unavailable YouTube Video and adding personal commentary that Apu Nahasapeemapetilon is a vegan (he isn't) with poor spelling mistakes "In the same episode learn we learn he is apparently good friends with Linda McCartney and Paul McCartney". It is the same thing over and over - an unreliable source or primary source, original research and personal commentary with spelling mistakes put onto article. The user has been called out about this type of editing many times and has been reverted but just does the same thing again and again on the article or a different one days or weeks later. I believe this issue needs to be resolved. Psychologist Guy (talk) 18:17, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have found this user to be persistent with opinion editing, use of dubious sources, and careless style and grammar WP:MOS on various articles about diets. Every edit needs to be checked and re-edited or reverted, with no engagement on the user's talk page or article talk page. I recommend a WP:TBAN on diet-related articles and edits. There is sufficient history to indicate that DietCokeFeast is both a sock master of other usernames and IP addresses, and a soapbox advocate for vegetarian diets, WP:SOAP. Zefr (talk) 20:35, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

User:Psychologist Guy, consider explaining your edit of Pescetarianism on the article talk page. It is possible that Youtube might be acceptable for that usage. (Apu is a fictional character, and we allow people to use the show itself as a source if the plot has to be described). But let me know if you notice User:DietCokeFeast getting into revert wars on diet-related articles. EdJohnston (talk) 17:59, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Jim Michael 2 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has been unnecessarily changing article talk page sections of discussions not started by him and has not stopped since I told him to on his talk page. I've told him on his talk page last month in May to not change talk page section headings for discussions that he did not start. I stated, "We leave these alone regardless of any errors they might have." However, he continued to do so many times. I gave another warning sixteen days ago saying while warning about an ANI, "Changing the edits on others or what they post and on talk pages is not appropriate. Read Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines. And no, not a single one of these reverts were of your 'correct edits'". Jim states that it is allowed since "Many long-term, regular editors improve them if they're wrong, unclear, misleading, too long or not neutral." The only reason I didn't do it was because he had stopped changing title sections for a period, and I figured that it was not going to be an issue again.

Bear in mind this is his other Wikipedia account. He says he lost the details to log in for Jim Michael. But with this former account, there has never been any issue that I found from when he was editing with this original account changing title sections on article talk pages.

The guidelines state for section headings, "It is generally acceptable to change headings when a better heading is appropriate, e.g., one more accurately describing the content of the discussion or the issue discussed, less one-sided, more appropriate for accessibility reasons, etc. Whenever a change is likely to be controversial, avoid disputes by discussing a heading change with the editor who started the thread, if possible." He goes on his talk page stating that he changed the title section on Talk:Manchester Arena bombing because it was "a misleading, badly-worded section heading." Even if it was, the discussion that takes place was about making improvements to the information of the article, not speculation. For Talk:2022 Buffalo shooting he changed the title claiming that it was a BLP violation. Apparently, the talk page heading which has a question mark at the end is an editor asking a question seeking advice and answers from other editors, to obviously correct or improve the information about the article subject, is somehow a violation of policy. But the editor who started the discussion is in fact seeking answers and two other editors reiterated that it does not violate the BLP policy. But I have to ask how can one user alone determine a better title when he never asked any editor who started a discussion on these talk pages if he felt there needed to be an improvement to avoid any issues? He only started asking about the title section after I reverted him, not prior. He could have added to the discussion to maybe change the section title first, then a change to it could have happened.

On Talk:Robb Elementary School shooting, he changed several section headings and was told by another user, Darknipples, to not do just that, while it was a section heading, and not the comments by a user, this was a discussion started and titles of discussions are left alone.

He thinks I'm following him which is just false. He and I have edited articles that have been listed as a current event around the same time, and I edit talk pages of articles using the current events project banner, as I've noticed the past few months many talk pages using that banner which weren't current events or are no longer a current event and I remove them from the talk page. But I feel this has been extremely disruptive to the point where an ANI had to be brought.

Pointing out two other users who thanked me for reverting Jim's changes to the discussion headings. Such as dying on Talk:2022 Sitakunda fire for the headings "apparently cosmetic edit" and "day of the week" which dying had created. And Davide King on Talk:Robb Elementary School shooting for two edits. 1, 2.

On Talk:List of Peep Show episodes, he did the same thing, even going to revert me by again making these claims that I'm following him. Second, he's done it again by adding a question mark at the end of the title of dicussion. Again he did not start this discussion. A small thing, sure, but, talk page guidelines state, "It is not necessary to bring talk pages to publishing standards, so there is no need to correct others' spelling errors, grammar, etc. Doing so can be irritating. The basic rule, with exceptions outlined below, is to not edit or delete others' posts without their permission." In my view, I doubt anyone would be confused by the title not having a question mark. It's a very minor thing on a talk page. On article space, definitely an improvement.

On Katy Perry, he's been trying to re-add Perry's relationship with Orlando Bloom with the original edit being "Perry has been engaged to Orlando Bloom since 2019. She gave birth to their daughter in 2020." to the bottom of the lead. He changed it to this. He's been reverted by two other editors, SNUGGUMS with this edit. And Apoxyomenus, where his edit summary states "While both are public figures, beyond personal life, this doesn't impacted Katy Perry's career or something similar. Info already present in the infobox". Adding it back again for a second time. I reverted this explaining that his explanation for including it on the talk page didn't lead to a consensus and recommend he turn it to an Rfc and a vote can be had on it. Adding back the relationship information after three explanations, I think constitutes edit-warring. But normally, it involves more than one person. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 18:45, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Pinging Darknipples, dying, Davide King, SNUGGUMS, and Apoxyomenus who can add to this. Making up for failed ping. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 18:48, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Just want to chime in here re: the Buffalo shooting talk page heading. I do not doubt that change was made in good faith, despite the fact that I disagreed with it. Ultimately, Jim Michael 2 seems to have accepted the arguments of myself and (more likely) Swarm, and so far as I know, that was that. That rambling introduction is merely my way of saying that I think Jim Michael 2 is operating in good faith, but I wish he would set a higher bar for these changes. Unless it's a blatant BLP issue, please seek consensus rather than changing unilaterally. Cheers, and Happy Friday! Dumuzid (talk) 18:56, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Describing a suspect as the killer is undoubtedly a blatant BLP issue.

WCM has been stalking me for weeks, by looking up my contributions, then going to many articles (most of which he would otherwise not go to) simply to revert me. The fact that he very frequently edits articles very soon after I do, merely to revert me, shows that he's following me. He also reverts other types of edits of mine. He repeatedly wrongly insists that improving section headings on talk pages is a serious wrongdoing, despite it clearly being allowed. He even sent a link to me which he said prohibits changing section headings on talk pages, but it actually says the opposite. He's saying here that I'm breaking the rule against changing comments, but I don't change comments, only headings which should be improved. No-one else harasses me this way & I never follow anyone. I edit exactly the same as I did as Jim Michael, and no-one followed & harassed me for the over a decade that I used that account. I only stopped using that account because I forgot my login details & was unable to use my previous laptop because stopped working, which I was permanently logged onto with. No-one but WCM follows me on this account. It's only since I started this clear replacement account later on the same day as I became unable to use the old one that he's been following me. He didn't suddenly become a Peep Show fan today. One of the changes I made was to remove a BLP vio which stated that a suspect was a killer. Another wrongly stated that an attendee of the Manchester Arena bombing died at another concert. None of my changes to talk headings are controversial, and they all fit the legitimate reasons for changing them. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 19:00, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Needlessly changing section headings can be disruptive. There are countless links all across the wiki to talk page sections, and your cosmetic edits show up on editors' watchlists, causing unnecessary clutter. Unless there's an actual reason to change the headings, it's best to just leave them as is. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 19:39, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• This seems like much ado about nothing, and seems very likely to do nothing but cause hurt feelings and waste time. I would encourage both of you to not respond further to each other, and only add to your comments here if someone uninvolved has questions. JM2: changing section titles for a good reason (i.e. BLP, genuine confusion) is fine, but please don't change them for trifling reasons (i.e. to add a question mark). When you change the section title, people clicking the section title in their watchlist don't get taken to the right location anymore. If you just dial back your bad-section-heading-meter about 2 clicks, I think we'll be fine. Also, be careful you don't edit war. WCM: changing section titles for a good reason (i.e. BLP, genuine confusion) is fine. JM has been here for 12 years and has made 135,000+ edits, with a clean block log. I am confident they don't need someone tracking their edits like you would a problem user, and following them to pages you've never been to before. If they occasionally change a section title that doesn't need changing, let's just let it go, ok? I'm saddened by how much time you probably spent on documenting stuff that is really not a big deal. And all this pinging is a little disappointing; if the people you pinged come here to add to the complaint, does JM2 get to ping half a dozen people that like him? --Floquenbeam (talk) 19:26, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed - thank you for your response to this ridiculously exaggerated complaint by the only person who harasses me on WP. Him following me, harrassing me, then unjustifiably making distorted allegations against me, threatening me, reporting me, then canvassing people who tend to be on his side in regard to other matters is ridiculous. I don't know why, after over 12 y of regularly frequently editing here, he decided to fixate on me. If he didn't follow me, he wouldn't even know of the large majority of my edits, just like he didn't during the previous 12 y, in which my editing was similar. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 19:31, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

WCM is undoubtedly doing what they think best; being gracious even when you feel maltreated is an uncommon skill (I don't really have it either), but would be more likely to result in this thread going away faster. --Floquenbeam (talk) 19:37, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I initially assumed good faith, but can no longer do so because he alone is without a doubt following me & frequently being hostile towards me. There's no good reason for him to have started following me, let alone having habitually done so for weeks after I asked him to stop doing it. He repeatedly falsely claimed that there's a outright rule against anyone changing a talk heading that they didn't write. As I said to him weeks ago, it clearly states: No-one, including the original poster, "owns" a talk page discussion or its heading. It is generally acceptable to change headings when a better heading is appropriate. He is therefore habitually reverting & berating me for what's clearly allowed, falsely claiming that I'm breaking the rules when he knows I'm not. As is also clear from the way he talks to & about me on here, my talk page & elsewhere, he's acting as though he has authority over me. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 19:41, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Jim Michael 2: with the greatest respect, you're really taking the wrong message from Floq's thoughtful comment above with this escalation of hostility. Both you and WCM are guilty of minor indiscretions - yourself for changing section headings that don't need changing (aside from the BLP violations), and WCM for being over obsessive about watching what you were doing. But the solution to that is as Floq says, dial it down. Both of you stop baiting each other. These are not issues to get worked up about on either side, even though the OP complaint is mildly valid and your counter claim of stalking is mildly valid. Both of you dial it back and we can move on with our lives. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 20:26, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

He's undoubtedly following me, then going to articles & talk pages that I've recently edited merely to revert me. The amount of time & effort he devotes to harassing me is ridiculous. This report is the latest escalation of that. If he wasn't following me, he wouldn't even be aware of the large majority of my edits. Without any doubt, every day, he chooses to look up my contributions in order to follow & annoy me. He shouldn't have started doing that & should permanently stop. I never follow anyone. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 20:29, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Even while this discussion has been happening, you've been making the same edits [16] that triggered this report in the first place. I have no doubt your intentions are good but this is basically the same as correcting someones grammar or spelling in a comment and generally not something we do. It's not like these section headers are malformed and in reality, they really are part of the OP (of any given talk page section)'s comments. PRAXIDICAE🌈 20:52, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I made that change before I was aware of this report. Also, I didn't change comments - only headings. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 21:07, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I don't believe you read what I said. When you change headings for inconsequential reasons, ie. correcting grammar, spelling, adding punctuation, it's effectively the same as editing someone's comment for the same reason. The only time a heading should be changed on a talk page is if it's going to be removed (vandalism) or malformed. What value did you adding a question mark have? PRAXIDICAE🌈 21:09, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That's certainly not the only time it should be done. It is generally acceptable to change headings when a better heading is appropriate, eg one more accurately describing the content of the discussion or the issue discussed, less one-sided, more appropriate for accessibility reasons, etc.

The question mark is to indicate it's a question. Adding a question mark often significantly changes a sentence's meaning. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 21:32, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That's just being pedantic. You're effectively correcting other editors grammar which is obnoxious. What you're quoting is more about making sure the topic is readable and relevant, you fixing minor grammatical and punctuation errors isn't. PRAXIDICAE🌈 22:14, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

And your responses here are rather lackluster, you've got a handful of good faith editors telling you it's disruptive and annoying, but you still insist you're right. Will you commit to not messing with talk page headers anymore? PRAXIDICAE🌈 22:15, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Most weren't grammatical corrections. I've already said that I'll only change talk headings when it's permitted, the specifics of which I've already quoted from the relevant guideline. I can't see what more I can say about that. I'm baffled that no-one other than me is refuting the clearly false, repeated claim by WCM that it's never permitted to improve sections headings unless you're the person who wrote them & that no-one other than me is explicitly telling him to stop following me. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 05:14, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Jim may have a point. Editor Interaction does show some questionable following. Along with the unnecessary warning about multiple accounts, there does seem to be some hounding here. Also possible this is a preemptive ANI in response to Special:Diff/1093604541. Slywriter (talk) 20:46, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

What that list doesn't show is that most of the editing he did shortly after me on those articles were solely reverts of my edits. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 21:04, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Jim Michael 2, are you willing to agree with Floquenbeam's excellent advice: If you just dial back your bad-section-heading-meter about 2 clicks, I think we'll be fine? Also, are you aware that when you repeat your indignant complaints over and over again, in essentially the same words, that it detracts from your argument? Cullen328 (talk) 20:45, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I'm willing to do that. The most important thing that I want in regard to this issue is for WCM to permanently stop following me. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 20:49, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

[17] Ironically, I accidentally removed others comments in a thread about not changing other editor's comments. In response to Jim Michael's earlier comment "I initially assumed good faith..." There is a rule, see WP:TPO. This does not seem to be about an issue of WP:OWN, it's seems more about following rules that keep editors from violating WP:DE. If they are unable or unwilling to act in good faith it could become a serious problem, and may require serious consequences. Changing TP title headings and other editors comments is a huge NO, and basic Wiki rules 101. I'm in agreement with my fellow editors above on this issue. My best advise is for them to put more effort into WP:AGF, not just with WCM, but with all editors here in general. They have nothing to gain by setting off false alarms. At this point, I would suggest thinking twice before even giving the impression of taking their patience and time for granted. That is what I am guessing led us to this point. Trust me, this place (ANI) is like a hospital, the sooner you are out of here the better your chances will be. In addition, and on the same subject, the perception of WP:BATTLE is also usually a red-flag that they may want to consider. As they are hopefully aware, being able to edit and collaborate on Wiki is a privilege, not a right. The key word here is COLLABORATE. Wiki is a collaborative project, after all. Moving forward, I kindly recommend that they give themself some time to step back and go over all the basic rules WP:TPG again, and look at how more seasoned editors communicate with others. Think about how responses may or may not be interpreted. That's all I have for now. Cheers. DN (talk) 21:19, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The guideline is: It is generally acceptable to change headings when a better heading is appropriate, which is far from a huge no. What you (along with most of the people in this discussion) aren't acknowledging is that changing talk headings is allowed in various circumstances. Many long-term, constructive, regular editors do so. They usually aren't berated for it or brought on ANI. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 21:26, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Surely there's better use of your time than faffing around with whether or not question marks/other punctuation marks are in section heading titles. Who ultimately cares? ♠JCW555 (talk)♠ 21:40, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I kindly suggest you read WP:IDHT and stop trying to move the goal posts around. Or, you can continue this type of behavior and see where that gets you. At this point, the popcorn is looking very tasty with extra salt. DN (talk) 21:51, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know what your cryptic references to popcorn & salt mean. I've already agreed to only change headings when needed. All I want is to no longer be followed by the only editor who does so. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 22:01, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Then stop quibbling over when Talk Page topic changes are acceptable because your legitimate concern is getting buried. As you said "who ultimately cares", so acknowledge it could be seen as disruptive and leave them be from now on. Slywriter (talk) 22:12, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

To be clear, I haven't been harassing or stalking Jim whatsoever. I've only brought this because I saw his edits on talk pages to be disruptive. And maybe he's just ignoring the fact that he and I have edited articles around the same time because of these articles have been tagged as a current event. And I've been responsible for removing outdated current events project banners from talk pages. He hasn't truly explained why he makes edits changing letters to be capitalized at the beginning and linking to articles within the heading. Maybe he thinks that there is a proper way of editing when starting a new discussion section for the title. But there is no such format. And he should refrain from these further false accusations of stalking. As if I'm only on here to monitor his edits. False. I have things to clear up on my sandbox for the purpose of improving Wikipedia and nothing else. For Talk:List of Peep Show episodes, I'll avoid changing his changes to the title sections because it would a pointless back and forth, and I'll leave it up to another editor. But he can do the least which is to remove the question mark at Talk:2022 Tulsa hospital shooting#Tulsa hospital shooting or 2022 Tulsa hospital shooting?. But it should be noted he's only citing the guidelines that fit his argument rather than the other I guess helpful reminders if you will about talk page editing. I'm not going to repeat everything else as I've already said it above. But I said all I wanted to. And I'm done. So hopefully, no more hard feelings further. Let's enjoy the weekend. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 22:18, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There's no doubt that you're following me. You edit a high proportion of the articles I edit, within hours or minutes of me doing so. I haven't changed my editing signficantly during the past 12 y, but you've only been frequently editing articles which I do since I started my new account several weeks ago. Not all of those edits are about recent/current events. In those 12 y, you've done more reverting of my TP edits than all other editors have combined. If you're not following me, why did you choose to edit Talk:List of Peep Show episodes for the first time, hours after I did so, only to revert me? That's the talk page of an episode list of a UK cult sitcom which you probably hadn't heard of before today. Unlike me, you didn't edit that article, merely the talk page. You didn't edit any other Peep Show-related articles, so even if you were to claim that you suddenly became a Peep Show fan today, it's not plausible that you'd edit only the talk page of the episode list. I didn't say that you're only on WP to follow me, but you've clearly chosen to frequently follow & revert me for the sake of it. You edit many articles only to revert me, without editing them in any other respect. If you're interested in improving those articles, you wouldn't edit only their talk pages. You haven't said whether or not you'll continue to follow me, or even admitted that you do so. I said what the guideline is regarding changing talk page headings to refute your repeated false claim that no-one other than the original writer of them is allowed to change them. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 22:49, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Yes, we are aware of your conviction that WCM is "following" you. You do not have to repeat the same accusation over and over and over again, in your every post to this thread. We heard you the first half dozen times. Ravenswing 23:49, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  I just wanted to mention that changing a talk page heading, even just adding punctuation, makes it harder for those watching a talk page and mainly interested in a particular section as it will show up in their feed under a different name when someone replies. Gusfriend (talk) 00:33, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  I would also like to note that since this discussion about editing the talk page edits of others on the page Talk:2022 they have edited one of their comments [18] to remove some text after it had been there for over 15 hours (added at [19]). According to Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines#Editing own comments this should be avoided (note that there are the usual exceptions) and strikethrough and inserted used instead. The updated signature ~~~~~ should also be used to indicate a change.

  Whilst looking at the page I noticed that they changed previously changed the reply level of someone's !vote at [20] (which can change the context of what they wrote) and gone back to add wikilinks after their post had been replied to at [21].

  Those are just some recent edits (i.e. last couple of days) on a single page but I think that their talk page approach is disruptive.

  I am also uncertain of mentioning this as it was a change shortly after posting before anyone had replied but they actually changed something in this discussion (see [22]).

  I can understand wanting to improve something that you have written or style that you don't like but that is best kept to the public pages. I also want to say that following someone on Wikipedia is not appropriate and do not plan to follow this user in future.

  Gusfriend (talk) 08:39, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I removed part of my sentence because it no longer applied. Hours after I wrote it, the conclusion of the Whisky War was added to 2022 in Canada & 2022 in Denmark. I didn't think of striking through it & there's no downside to removing it.

During this discussion, as in many others, I improved comments after having written them. Many thousands of editors do that & there's no rule against it. If you write out a long comment in one go on a page as frequently edited as this, it's highly likely you'll lose it all in an edit conflict, so many thousands of editors write their comments in stages. There's no rule against adding links to your own comments, nor should there be, because it's helpful.

WCM is repeatedly denying following me, despite a great deal of evidence that he's been doing so for weeks. Not admitting it means that he's not going to say that he'll stop doing it. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 09:25, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You mentioned that part of the sentence no longer applied and there was "no downside to removing it" but the text that you removed may have been part of the reason that people agreed on a particular course of action or didn't involve themselves in the conversation and removing the text means that the page, as displayed, is no longer a record of the discussion which I would argue is a downside. It also goes against the statement Once others have replied, or even if no one's replied but it's been more than a short while, if you wish to change or delete your comment, it is commonly best practice to indicate your changes. in Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines#Editing own comments.

I agree that having links in a comment can be a very good thing, but again, if you go back at a later time (i.e. more than a short while) to add links then you can change the context of the following comments which had been made before there were links.

I realise that these might seem like minor things but for those that have been involved in the conversation on the talk pages it can make things just that little bit harder.

Gusfriend (talk) 10:07, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The only way in which the removed text could have influenced anyone is by encouraging the addition of the event to the year by country articles, which is one of the reasons I wrote it. Once it had been added (on the same day), the removed text was no longer true or relevant, so I removed it. Only one edit has been made to that talk page since then, which is in a different section & completely unrelated to it.

None of my additions of links changed the context of any of the comments in their section. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 10:23, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have only been editing since last year but I have learnt that Wikipedia is all about consensus, part of which is about getting a sense of what other people think. Even the existence or not of wikilinks can help get a sense of what the editor thinks is important. I realise that editors are encouraged to be bold but we are also taught to work together Your initial edit indicated support for the addition but removing it could be seen as removing support for that change. It could certainly cause someone to waste effort double guessing themselves.

I realise that my comments may not be sufficient to explain why I have a concern and are unlikely to change your existing practices when it comes to talk pages so I will be stepping out of the conversation now. I would however like to note that the effect your actions may have on other editors as it may be bigger than you realise. Gusfriend (talk) 11:58, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I left an edit summary explaining my removal of the few words in question; there's no way that it could be misconstrued. Leaving them there after the event had been added to the year by country articles would have been misleading. There's also no chance that adding links could have changed the context etc. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 16:11, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Edit summaries only help if people are actively looking through the page history. Folks just reading the Talk page will have no idea the comment has been changed, which is why you should absolutely not alter your post once others have replied to it. Instead you should strike through the words that are no longer relevant, so folks can realize it's been changed & see the current context. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 19:02, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No-one had replied to that comment, and still haven't, so that's not relevant. None of the other comments in that section are replies to that comment. I removed a small portion of my comment because it had become no longer true or relevant. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 19:43, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• ANI is a place where if you report a murder and a grammatical error, everyone will spend the whole time debating whether or not it was a grammatical error (including the person who was murdered). Levivich 03:14, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Your it has an unclear antecedent. EEng 05:02, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  It's uncircumscribed. Levivich 05:08, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  So it's a gentile antecedent? Dumuzid

  Penis jokes, just what we needed in the frat house 2600:1700:12B0:300F:2CF6:872A:911D:531B (talk) 22:31, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  We'll be happy to supply some vagina jokes for balance. EEng 19:15, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Bike shedding at its finest. — rsjaffe 🗣️ 05:06, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Since March 2022 there has been an ongoing edit war on McKinsey & Company, involving multiple users and IPs (some of them likely being sockpuppets with a conflict of interest), over this sentence: "It has consistently been recognized by Vault as the most prestigious consulting firm in the world."

• 4 March 2021: the first addition of that text, by Dexter2304 (talk · contribs). This account has made a bunch of other promotional edits to this article.
• 5 March 2022: removed by Muchasz (talk · contribs)
• 05:51, 6 March 2022: restored by AnonymousCEO (talk · contribs) without an explanation. This is the only edit made by this account.
• 12:41, 6 March 2022: removed by MrOllie (talk · contribs)
• 18 March 2022: restored by Tomatobasilhaddock (talk · contribs) with edit summary "This is relevant to the firm in a rankings-sensitive industry". This account has made a bunch of other promotional to this article.
• 6–8 April 2022: removed by two IPs
• 16:07, 8 April 2022: restored by Dexter2304 (talk · contribs)—"Reverting to how it was before"
• 16:11, 8 April 2022: removed by MrOllie (talk · contribs)
• 10 April 2022: restored by 83.226.57.198 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)—"added relevant rank in a ranking sensitive industry"
• 12 June 2022: removed by Kleinpecan (talk · contribs)
• 14 June 2022: restored by 208.127.240.33 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) without an explanation
• 15 June 2022: removed by Kleinpecan (talk · contribs) again
• 17 June 2022: restored by 208.127.243.16 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)—"long time standing relevant reputation in a ranking-sensitive industry"

Kleinpecan (talk) 01:48, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Checkuser needed ( Self-endorsed by clerk for checkuser attention) for:
  • Tomatobasilhaddock (talk⁺ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)
  • Dexter2304 (talk⁺ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)
  • AnonymousCEO (talk⁺ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)
• If it's not socking, I'd still lean toward pblocking TBH and Dexter from the article. The IPs are ducks (be that as LOUTSOCK or MEAT) to TBH. 83 is a residential IP in Sweden; 208 is a Google Cloud IP, and I've {{webhostblock}}ed 208.127.240.0/21 (block range · block log (global) · WHOIS (partial)) for a year accordingly. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she/they) 04:39, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• @Tamzin: Tomatobasilhaddock and Dexter2304 appear to be  Unrelated to each other from a technical standpoint. AnonymousCEO is  Stale. Mz7 (talk) 05:13, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Thanks, Mz7. Gah, cuStaleness.js has spoiled me to the point that I can't do basic date math, apparently. Pblocked both accounts (dormant, but have returned from dormancies in the past), also gave {{uw-paid1}}. If someone thinks a more serious sanction is in order, I have no objection, but this seemed the bare-minimum response. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she/they) 05:47, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Umm, with all respect for the challenges of fighting UPE or other COI promotional editing, I think this is an overreaction. Given the nature of the consulting industry, I think the Occam's Razor explanation is not coordinated promotional editing by UPEs or anything nefarious, but keenness and pride by a mixture of random McKinsey employees (not incentivized to market McKinsey, just proud of where they work) and some of this year's new consultant hires, who will have received offers a few weeks ago, are graduating about now from college/university, and keen to start work as a prestigious employer shortly. So I suspect there's about as much COI involves as by students at a university editing their university's page with a bit of a pride as bias. As to the substantive edit that is being edit-warred about, as an uninvolved editor I think it's reasonable to include it, but will take that to the article talk page rather than here. Martinp (talk) 11:59, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

MicoKovalevski (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Attempted thrice to remove sourced info about the Kurdish origin in Tahmasp I [23] [24] [25] claiming that they "were Turks and not Kurds". When replying to the AA2 warning he received for those edits, this was his reply, I'm not quite sure what he meant by "diseases"; If you see my last edits,you can understand that I am not interested in Armenia-Azerbaijan conflict. My last edits are about diseases.

Recently he has been attempting to remove sourced information about the puppet state status in Azerbaijan People's Government [26] [27], claiming that "it is not a puppet state".

It seems that this user prefers his own opinion than that of academic sources. --HistoryofIran (talk) 11:38, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Mahabad republic and Azerbaijan peoples republic in Iran were not "puppet" states. I do not expect any historical correction from Iranian nationalist.

https://kurdishpeople.org/kurdistan-republic-mahabad/

https://www.britannica.com/place/Mahabad MicoKovalevski (talk) 11:42, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You can't just remove credible academic sources saying one thing and then claim the opposite without reliable citations. Also the "Iranian nationalist" PA seems a bit familiar... MiasmaEternal☎ 11:50, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

In terms of Tahmasp 1, He was Turk as you know Safavids were Turkic.

The Mongol invasions that began in the 13th century drastically reconfigured the Islamic world. Not only did the invasions bring about the end of the Abbasid empire and leave the centre of eastern Islamdom fractured, but the arrival of new Turkic peoples and dynasties throughout much of Islamdom shifted the axes of power into the hands of Turkic clans. The Ṣafavī order at Ardabīl, however, was distant enough from any political centre to remain neutral, allowing the Persian mystics to build a strong following of their own.

from britannica MicoKovalevski (talk) 11:45, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• From your own link to Britannica [28], "Shortly after World War II, the short-lived Republic of Mahābād, with a Soviet-backed puppet government, was declared by the Kurds.". You also appear to be confused between Azerbaijan People's Government (puppet state) and Azerbaijan People's Republic (also known as Azerbaijan Democratic Republic, not a puppet state). Black Kite (talk) 11:51, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Kurdishpeople is not WP:RS, and Britannica is barely WP:RS [29], and it doesn't justify you removing sourced information either. You're not doing yourself any favour either by randomly calling me an "Iranian nationalist" and saying I'm unable to do "historical correction". --HistoryofIran (talk) 11:53, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This is MicoKovalevski's latest comment, which they for some reason wrote to me in their talk page; @HistoryofIran board of wikipedia. Please consider wrong historical arguments of nationalist people and their pan-nationalistic sources. So basically more his opinion > academic sources. I honestly can't see how this user is here to build an encyclopedia, they remind of various other new users who have been blocked for the very same behaviour. --HistoryofIran (talk) 20:57, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Our Lady of Medjugorje (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
• Red Rose 13 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Governor Sheng (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

User:Red Rose 13 started editing Our Lady of Medjugorje back in 2019. The reason for they starting editing here is my effort to rearrange the article, apparently without prior discussion. So I agreed to discuss the whole issue with them and thought there's a possibility for us to make this article a GA [30]. I was wrong.

At first, they doubted me misusing sources when I would translate them from Croatian (Talk:Our Lady of Medjugorje/Archive 2#Google Translating to English?), but when it turned out my translations were authentic, they continued doing that for which they accused me - Using google translator to translate from Croatian In regards to your concern about translating. I have been using Google Translate or Bing Translate to be able to read this pdf. If you want feel free to double-check me."; they using google or bing is way older than that, but this is one of the comments they mention that). So we went through that charade where I spent hours re-translating, inviting other Croatian-speaking editors to check me, only to see that Red Rose 13 has been using google as a translator (nota bene I'm not using google translate, I'm a native speaker and well versed in English).

The initial issue was - as I said - me rearranging the article, ie doing major changes, without prior discussion. Nota bene, when I first started editing the article, most editors were quite disinterested in that subject, so I felt there was not much to discuss (boy I was wrong). Because, then, this hell broke loose. Red Rose 13 rearranged the whole article without any discussion, especially when they noticed I'm not around.

So, I was inactive from 9 October 2021 to 9 January 2022 [31]. Let's look at the history of Our Lady of Medjugorje in that period [32]. Article totally rearranged without any discussion.

Maybe the best description of their editing here is this.

Not only that but Red Rose 13 edits the articles exclusively I'm involved with. These are limited to: Our Lady of Medjugorje, Jozo Zovko, Pavol Hnilica, Frane Franić, Tomislav Vlašić, Pavao Žanić.

That in itself might not be problematic if it didn't involve malicious editing.

Namely, both of us were recently blocked for 24hrs for edit warring. After the block ended Red Rose started bullying and malicious editing.

This, this, this and this are the examples in only last two days.

Ever since the block ended I noticed this passive-aggressive stance from them with comments "let's work as a team", and then they went on to rampage to call me out to fix some shit at Romanis Pontificibus, an article I made 1 edit in total back in 2020, and to fix some refs I haven't even added on other articles Talk:Catholic Church response to the Medjugorje apparitions#Reference Issues; reverted my edit because she thought it was "my mistake"; changed the meaning of the sentence I added, misusing the source (visible at the Our Lady of Medjugorje talk page), and what not.

Now, parce mihi Domine quia Dalmata sum, I did this.

My opinion is that Red Rose somehow tried to "press" me with these ref fixes because they saw this discussion on the talk page. And then they joined in with comments like: "Governor Sheng. You have had enough time to see these comments. Please correct your errors."; "Governor Sheng. You just did massive edits on Our Lady of Medjugorje with some source called Gontermann 2021 and you used the short form reference and did not add any cites for this link. It needs to be fixed immediately."; "Do you plan on fixing it within 24 hours?". These aren't "friendly" questions, but imposing ultimatums.

We've been quarreling over Our Lady of Medjugorje for three, and it exploded on other pages I edit as well. Red Rose 13's talk page is filled with complaints from other editors [33], so I know I'm not crazy here. User:Manannan67 has also been editing Our Lady of Medjugorje and has encountered similar issues with this editor. --Governor Sheng (talk) 13:49, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I was in the middle of preparing a post for ANI about this situation, but Governor Sheng has beaten me to it. So here is my take/history.

I would like to ask for the eyes and opinions of more administrators on the editing at Our Lady of Medjugorje and related articles, and in particular the tendentious behaviour of User:Red Rose 13 and User:Governor Sheng. There has been a very long, 3 year history of conflict between these two editors including in December 2020 a declined request for arbitration. [34]]; in Dec 2020 Third opinion request, which I answered.[35]; in April 2021 DRN: [36][37]; February 2022 I fully protected for edit warring [38] and warned them ; two days ago, I blocked both of them for days of edit warring. Now they are immediately back at it again the tendentious editing, including reverting, insulting and accusations against each other.

A quick look at the main article will show a bloated, virtually incomprehensible article which is the result of the editing of these two editors. Other editors (including myself) are quickly exhausted and give up. Dispute resolution has gone nowhere, multiple times.

In case it helps, here is my understanding of the topic. In the 1980s some teenagers claimed that they received and in some cases are still receiving messages from the Virgin Mary. The Catholic Church is divided in its response. Some are convinced, but some local bishops/clerics, were cautious/unconvinced, particularly when "Mary" came out against them in an ongoing internal local church dispute (the bishops vs local Franciscans). The place has become an massive pilgrimage site, and lots of money and power/prestige are at play.

As noted above, I first became involved via a third opinion request in December 2020. My experience is that many disputes can be resolved by using the best possible sources, so I spent several months attempting to coach them about how identify good quality, independent secondary sources and to make an outline.[39] I even attempted to model how to source and write one of the sections of the article, but I soon realized that there was little hope that either of them would take up the mantle and actually write a neutral well-sourced article.

From my observation:

• User:Red Rose 13 would like to include as much positive information and endless detail about the alleged apparitions and the 'seers'. They have had problems with plagiarism, use of poor sources, synthesis.[40][41] they edit war [42][43]and posts walls of text to talk page [44] They are pointy, following Governor Sheng to articles to post complaints [45][46]. In my view, Governor Sheng's concerns about possible harassment are legitimate.
• In contrast, User:Governor Sheng would like to reduce the fancruft bloat (understandable) but replace it with inappropriate negative/skeptical detail from the bishops’ perspective. They are frequently rude/dismissive/uncollegial. [47][48][49] They edit war.[50][51][52] However, to my mind, what is most impeding progress on the article is that the sources used for this are primary, involved sources written and published by the clerics/dioceses directly involved in the dispute e.g. Ratko Perić;Pavao Žanić;Dražen Kutleša) and Nicolas Bulat. When evaluating the sources, I recommended that these primary, non-independent sources only be used with extreme caution, particularly as living persons are involved. Governor Sheng has repeatedly tried get other answers at RSN [53][54][55], and despite never getting a clear green light, to this day continues to pronounce that the sources are fine to use.[56] [57] A quick look at the reference list of the Our Lady of Medjugorje shows just how frequently they are used. In contrast, he has tried to get other secondary sources dismissed because they are "biased" (in the opposite direction, of course).[58]. I should mention that there are many independent high quality secondary sources that could be used to write the article in the level of detail needed for an encyclopedia article.

On a positive note, on my talkpage yesterday, Governor Sheng accepted fault in editwarring, and wondered if they should both be blocked for a month.[59] I won't go that far, but I do think perhaps if they were both topic banned for 3-6 months of so, it would give a chance to other editors to clean up the article in relative peace. Your thoughts on this or any other solutions? Slp1 (talk) 15:43, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I was preparing a response explaining the problems I see with Governor Shengs references when you posted Slp1. I think your idea to topic ban us would be a relief. (Would that include the OLM and its related pages? If you go to bottom of page and click on OLM, it shows all the related pages) And if you were to oversee the page as editors clean it up, would allow me to let go. Also btw I am not "following" GSheng to post about the references on the OLM related pages. I have been watching all the OLM pages for a very long time and do edit on most of them as well. They are all interconnected and not owned by GSheng. Also a reference problem was being discussed on his talk page which gave me concern and I thought it was important to look at all the OLM pages to see if there were problems there to. I thought I was being helpful to list the problems that needed fixing and leave it on the talk page rather than take it to his personal talk page. I was not being malicious. I am just so burned out that I am beyond frustration. It has affected my personal life with the stress. Also I find positive posts from secondary sources to counteract/balance out the large amount of negativity using primary sources that is on the page. Perhaps I over did it. Red Rose 13 (talk) 16:40, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It is important to point out that the article by Mato Zovkic is also a primary source because he was appointed to Zanics commission as noted in his article. Translated from page 77 in the last part of the first paragraph. "Furthermore, I was not very interested in Medugorje until the Bishop of Mostar, Pavao Žanic, appointed me a member of the Episcopal Commission for Research of Events in the Parish of Medugorje." [[60]]Red Rose 13 (talk) 22:18, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Lots of discussion on the article's talk page but unproductive. It's kind of like a pendulum: one perceives the other going in one direction so goes a bit further in the other to counterbalance, which results in the first going further yet in the first direction to counterbalance etc etc etc. I think Slp1's idea to pban both from the article for awhile to give other editors space to work on it would be the best solution for the article. Schazjmd (talk) 16:53, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I can completely see how this happens. Wikipedia attracts/has an institutional bias in favour of scepticism. You can't fight them all, sometimes you need to put yourself first and withdraw. Secretlondon (talk) 17:16, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't looked at all the ins and outs of this particular article, but must say that scepticism (towards anything, including claimed visionaries and the established church) is a lack of bias, and part of a neutral point of view. Phil Bridger (talk) 17:29, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

For what it is worth, I don't think the skepticism/faith balance of the article is the real problem here: the actual issue is the longterm breaching of multiple policies, including NPOV. Many editors with a point of view can and do edit without problem as their edits reflect "fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias, all the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic." And that has not been happening. Slp1 (talk) 18:01, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

And again... [61]. This kind of behaviour shouldn't be welcomed on Wikipedia. As I said these kind of requests from Red Rose 13 are malicious. So, I noticed everytime Red Rose 13 goes around, maliciously editing here and there, they complain how "they're stressed". This kind of hypocritical behaviour was explained earlier - they call me to work as a team, then afterward call me out on so many articles to do some fixes (the articles I barely edited), giving ultimatums and requests. This was a subject of previous discussions here, where they talk how they're "becoming a nervous wreck and I don't think editing on Wikipedia should cause so much stress.", to which another editor responded with: "Other comments: Red Rose, you do not have the competence to judge who is or is not capable of reading, writing, speaking, or translating from Croatian. English sources are preferred, not mandatory. I am incensed by your attempts to portray Sheng as a danger to you. If anything, they've been unnecessarily patient with your insulting conduct.". I'm just saying - there's a very, very long history of them "chasing" after me, and then portraying themselves as some kind of victim of harassment. I intended to stay away from this discussion, and let others conclude what they can (I could have been subjective and accuse someone too harshly), but this just doesn't stop, even after reporting the incident(s). --Governor Sheng (talk) 21:04, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have been editing sporadically in this general area since about 2014 and made Catholic Church response to the Medjugorje apparitions "easier to read", according to its Talk page. (I'm not sure it still is.) much of this could be trimmed, as it's already covered there, as well as under Herzegovina Affair. I have not done so, as I am not particularly interested in engaging in endless, pointless debate.

I have had little direct contact with Governor Shang, probably (because I am not conversant in Croatian), but I have on a number of occasions simply walked away from the article currently under discussion for extended periods of time due to difficulty in editing with Red Rose 13. While she frequently quotes wiki guidelines, I find her application of same woefully subjective. Apparently if a known publisher decides he can sell a book about Medjugorge, that makes it RS regardless of the author's qualifications. Kengor is a political hack with no apparent experience in the Balkan political scene. (Next, I expect to see that the moon landing was done on blue screen.) Continued to push Mart Bax as RS even after being referred to Bax's article where he is discredited. A litany of hearsay, and in some instances suspect, "private" endorsements by JPII which cannot be verified, but have been contradicted. Red Rose 13 focuses on the visionaries and the alleged apparitions with little or no interest in context or ramifications. If a source supports her views, it's RS.

An inability to grasp the influence of Croat nationalism in either the timing of the apparitions, nor the funds generated from the pilgrims and directed through the Hercegovačka banka to the ultra-nationalist HDZ. ("I am wondering if a couple of sentences couldn't be put in the Political section under Background and then link to the Medjugorje page for the bulk of the information? We are trying to keep the page organized and streamlined."[!]) If anyone thinks Vatican oversight is only to do with "pastoral concerns", I have a bridge in Brooklyn in which you might be interested. I wouldn't be at all surprised if someone at SFOR dropped a hint.

It's an interesting and nuanced subject. I listed a half-dozen fine sources but to no avail, The article at present is a waste. Like so many others I just can't be bothered and leave. Manannan67 (talk) 22:31, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I am not comfortable bashing fellow editors but I do need to say something in my defense. Fyi... GSheng is referring to his edits on the Jozo Zovko page where he edit bombed Sullivans(secondary source) citations with a citation needed tags. I spent many months looking at every single edit and every single source to check for distortions in editing. I found many with Governor Sheng and a couple with Manannan 67 and when I found them I would correct it and then either leave what happened in the edit comments or mentioned on the talk page. They would either leave out critical information from the source or not reflect what was in the source and write their own bias. This just happened with GSheng as you can see on the talk page. In regards to our discussion about Max, I took Manannan67 objections and found a link that supported what Manannan 67 was alluding to and I removed the reference. He forgot to tell you that. I completely support reliable secondary sources even when I don't like what it is saying. I don't know what he is talking about that he presented many sources but to no avail. GSheng actually reverted one of Manannan67 edits thinking it was mine and ridiculed his source. Also I use a primary source for basic information like OConnell because she had basic information about the seers that others did not have. I never removed a post using a secondary book source from this page. Just because I ask a question about what someone is posting, doesn't mean I am trying to block it from the page. The rest of Manannan67's judgements are so off base, I don't feel a need to respond. If an editor is upset because I post something positive on the page using a reliable source, to me that just shows their bias. Thanks for listening. I am looking forward to the page being trimmed way back and will watch in delight.Red Rose 13 (talk) 23:37, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

For what it's worth, I got dragged into this and was asked to look into this here, and in short my response was basically for Red Rose to go edit other articles for a while, and if that failed, an interaction ban. See here for that. The very next non-user talk page edit was right back where we started so clearly I wasn't listened to at all, so at the least an interaction ban would be needed, which would in effect be a topic ban on this article because I can see no solution where one user edits the article and the other does not given the history here. As an aside, I don't know the source material well enough to determine which user is "correct" on what sources or viewpoints should be used, and honestly I don't care, I'm just looking at the user conduct itself. Wizardman 14:27, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Wizardman for your input but I do need to communicate a couple of things since you are completely new to the problem. I have been actively editing on this page and other related pages for 2 + years and editing Wikipedia for 10 years. The recent edits you saw on this page was a recent flurry of activity by GS after our edit block was lifted. So your statement "where one user edits the article and the other does not given the history here" is completely incorrect. Go further back in the history of editing. After his flurry of edits it is hard for me as an editor to correct the page because I can't revert his edits that are a problem and it is impossible to discuss every single edit with him. I experience him as an edit bully who doesn't want to work as team and insists on using primary sources for controversial edits and refuses to remove it. In fact he refuses to admit that 4 of his sources are primary sources.[[62]] In fact I had to put a tag (secondary source needed) after a few of his primary sources that he was using for a controversial post. He then attacks the reliable secondary source with tag bombing of citation needed [[63]] Jozo Zovko page and reverting edits that use this source as well. Also I did listen to you I was cleaning up one last bit that needed to be exposed. I am hoping that Slp1 puts both GS and myself in a subject matter ban for at the very least 3 months and hopefully longer. I am exhausted. Here is a sampling of documentation of Governor Shengs edit bullying from a variety of OLM related pages. Remember it is just a sampling:

False accusation and uncivil communication bullying

• Accusing me of malicious editing when from the concern of errors in references found and discussed on his talk page with 2 other concerned editors, [[64]] I thought I should review all the OLM connected articles listed at the bottom of OLM page. Many of those pages I have been editing since Feb, March or April 2021- Jozo Zovko, Tomislav Vlašić, Frane Franić, Pavol Hnilica, Pavao Žanić, Catholic Church response to the Medjugorje apparitions(editing since Nov 2020). Out of courtesy I brought the problems I discovered and left them at the page and did not take them to his personal talk page. I did make a couple of errors and I apologize for that but it did not come from malicious intent.
• Right below this post, Governor Sheng again calling me borderline hypocritical.
• Right in his opening statement he calls me passive aggressive
• Here "What the f is wrong with you? " [[65]] Scroll down almost to the bottom.
• Here inappropriate words: "I pooped vs. it was pooped in my toiled during my pontificate" [[66]]
• Here he is accusing me of removing a sentence that had a secondary source using the word malicious - "*Someone* made a little mess... :) Who is it I wonder... Deleting properly referenced sentence... hmmm. Very malicious editing" [[67]]. All he had to do was read the paragraph and see the sentence. You can see it about halfway down. This is on a OLM related page.
  
• User Rotten Rose deleted the source in her rampage [[68]] Just look to the left and you will see Manannan67 did it legitimately. Not only did he falsely accuse me but called me Rotten Rose.
  
• Two more: [[69]] and [[[[70]] For F's Sake]]

Disruptive Editing/Deletes secondary sources and post:

• Deleted a photograph of a statue of the Gospa instead of moving it, saying sandwiched [[71]]
• Here he is deleting sections of this page including two secondary sources one of them being the author Klimek.[[72]]
• Another one [[73]]
  
• Disruptive editing - Here he is rearranging and deleting properly sourced information from the section without a discussion and at the same time adds a new reference with no cite. [[1] Also when making the edit he gives no comment and claims it is a minor edit. At the same time there is a discussion on his talk page about the cite missing on his references on many other pages reported by two other editors as well as myself. [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Governor_Sheng#Short_form_references] I took this new non working reference to the talk page to ask about it. His response: “…there was no intention on my side to keep the non-referenced inserts I added.” The question is why disrupt Wikipedia and rearrange and delete words and then revert it? [[74]]

Self started edit warring
[[75]] and [[76]] and [[77]] and [[78]]
Calling primary sources secondary sources

• [[79]]
  

Adding references without the cite to many pages

• Talk going on at his talk page. [[80]]

Red Rose 13 (talk) 19:08, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No. 271 is me reverting myself, so the comment for F's sake was implied for myself. :) Rotten rose is german for red rose? Maybe I'm wrong. Other than that, finding an example of a year-old edit warring... I don't know why is that even relevant anymore. As for "spamming" "secondary sources", you did that before I have to Kutleša's books, didn't you? ([81]; even though there was an ongoing discussion about this exact subject; when both of us were just out of 24hrs "jail" for edit warring, this was a clear provocation). Like the other user said, "borderline hypocritical". It is my legitimate right as an editor to question sources. --Governor Sheng (talk) 23:00, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

UPDATE: [82] Really? During an ongoing discussion where I clearly stated my disagreement, and after both of us were just unblocked? Governor Sheng (talk) 00:50, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Not again!?! I will comment within 12 hours. This was a long unsuccessful moderated discussion at DRN. Robert McClenon (talk) 17:24, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There is history at [[83]] and at Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard/OLM . I will review the history and comment on it within 24 hours. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:49, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Some Thoughts from a Former Neutral Party

I will try to comment on my involvement with this controversy, without having read any of the recent history except to observe that there was edit-warring. This was one of those cases where the disputants both wanted me to read the history of lengthy talk page exchanges, and I repeatedly told them to be civil and concise. What has changed in the past one-and-one-half years is that they are much more openly uncivil.

I first became aware of this dispute on 2 December 2020, when User:Governor Sheng filed a Request for Arbitration. It was a good-faith erroneous request, because they were not really requesting a quasi-judicial process, but help. The statement by User:Red Rose 13 is a good summary of what they wanted at the time: "We desperately need an unbiased, expert editor to guide us." I later came to understand the significance of that request. I said at the time that this was a content dispute with no conduct issues. At the time, it was. I said that they should request a Third Opinion, and maybe use one or more Requests for Comments. ArbCom rightly declined the case as not requiring arbitration. It appears that they then did request a Third Opinion, and that User:Slp1 answered, and worked with them at length, for which thanks are due. They then requested mediation at DRN, and I spent a month trying to mediate. The mediation was largely about Pavol Hnilica, a bishop who was involved in the controversy about the reported visions, and also about Our Lady of Medjugorje (OLM). It was excessively difficult to get either or both of them to identify specific article content questions to be resolved by RFC or specific sources about which the reliability could be evaluated at RSN. One of them, Red Rose 13, continued to insist that sources had to be either in English or translated into English. They never did answer my question of why they were asking to ignore Wikipedia policy on sources. After about a month, they said that what they really needed was an expert editor to guide them in rewriting the OLM article, and the articles on some of the clergy. I concluded that they had the idea that Wikipedia has a reserve pool of editors who are identified and rated as experts who are available for assignment to assist in rewriting articles. I was not prepared to work with them in rewriting the article to their satisfaction, and ended the mediation. They said that they would try to work on improving the article. Based on what Slp1 and other editors have now said, it appears that they have been worsening the articles by quarreling.

It now appears that they have been arguing for another year. They are no longer being civil, because Governor Sheng has said that Red Rose 13's edits are malicious.

At this point, my opinion is that whatever sanctions are imposed should be for at least a year. Robert McClenon (talk) 01:55, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

At the very least, agree with the above. Wizardman 00:17, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Has it always been common for the type of editing seen in the following diff to happen? [84] In this diff, there are 21 straight edits adding exactly one byte to the page, then 21 straight edits that remove those added bytes, resulting in nothing being added to the page and the page history being flooded with useless edits. I patrol recent edits that trigger edit filters and so when IP editors trigger filter 1199 it catches my interest. I've observed this type of editing from both IPv4 and IPv6 editors, so I feel it might be a recent trend of disruption and not an LTA editor. Is it possible for filter 1199 to be set to disallow for edits that repeatedly add a small amount of bytes to the page? This should prevent rapid edit history disruption while allowing legitimate mass edits to be made. Mori Calliope fan talk 20:14, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There's a large range doing this across multiple articles (2001:4455:0:0:0:0:0:0/32). I'll see if I can come up with some range blocks to prevent it until the filter is adjusted.-- Jezebel's Ponyo^{bons mots} 20:26, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Wait, it's all confined to the /64 range, which makes it much easier. NinjaRobotPirate blocked it while I was poking about.-- Jezebel's Ponyo^{bons mots} 20:30, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, it was mostly on a /64, but then I noticed it's been spread throughout a /40 for the past few months without much collateral damage. So I blocked the /40 for a few months. I doubt anyone will be affected, though I probably should have left account creation enabled. I'm so used to disabling account creation that I usually forget to try that first. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 20:33, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Could someone take a look at this? I am seeing a large number of WP:SPAs voting at this AFD. I am also seeing several new-ish accounts that all edit on earthquakes, which may or may not be socks. Perhaps someone who is good at looking into socks could help with a report? Thanks.4meter4 (talk) 20:40, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Natural disasters such as earthquakes, like professional wrestling or cars, seem to attract lots of very strong opinions, which lead to ownership behaviour by those who hold them. This may be the case here rather than sock/meatpuppetry, but either way I think that a reminder is needed that Wikipedia:Notability (earthquakes) is not a guideline, and conflicts with our actual notability guidelines. Phil Bridger (talk) 20:52, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Phil Bridger One of the SPA accounts has made only one edit (Melimoyu), and it was at this AFD. Several other accounts were all created around the same time and have edited in the same content area, sometimes the same articles, so I am pretty certain that it is sock puppetry. I just am uncertain who the puppet master is. 4meter4 (talk) 20:54, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That's still consistent with special-interest editing. If you would like to start an SPI, you may, but I would encourage you to make sure you have evidence differentiating this from people interested in the same topic, as SPIs of the "Everyone's super-interested in this topic that tends to attract strong interest!" variety are usually declined if they don't have such evidence. As to figuring out the sockmaster, just make your best effort to find the oldest registered account; if you get it wrong, I or another clerk will correct it. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she/they) 21:30, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I went ahead and filed a report. Best.4meter4 (talk) 21:36, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

And I've closed it without action. There was nothing to differentiat[e] this from people interested in the same topic. As noted in my closing statement, there was probably canvassing here. There's usually there's not much to do about single-offense canvassing of new/low-activity users other than ignore their !votes, which has already happened here. But if someone wants to send out warnings to the particularly new/low-activity ones, they're welcome to. (I don't think we even have a "You were canvassed" template, just a "You canvassed" one, but one can always write something by hand.) And any evidence of off-wiki canvassing can be sent to ArbCom. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she/they) 22:16, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Moved from WP:AN

 – ~ ToBeFree (talk) 21:43, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Vandalize the page! Chinese sockpuppets: 31.183.181.66 and 31.183.180.48  ☀DefenderTienMinh☽  (talk) 15:18, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

KhanhCN Defender1st Minh, no full evaluation, just noting: In Special:Diff/1093742143 you seem to request sources for the removal of content, while WP:BURDEN normally works the other way around. The revert may be justified, just the edit summary is suboptimal for reasons beyond "Dude". I'm moving the report to WP:ANI, which is a more suitable noticeboard.

• 31.183.147.235 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • blacklist hits • AbuseLog • what links to user page • COIBot • Spamcheck • count • block log • x-wiki • Edit filter search • WHOIS • RDNS • tracert • robtex.com • StopForumSpam • Google • AboutUs • Project HoneyPot)
• 31.183.181.66 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • blacklist hits • AbuseLog • what links to user page • COIBot • Spamcheck • count • block log • x-wiki • Edit filter search • WHOIS • RDNS • tracert • robtex.com • StopForumSpam • Google • AboutUs • Project HoneyPot)
• 31.183.180.48 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • blacklist hits • AbuseLog • what links to user page • COIBot • Spamcheck • count • block log • x-wiki • Edit filter search • WHOIS • RDNS • tracert • robtex.com • StopForumSpam • Google • AboutUs • Project HoneyPot)

~ ToBeFree (talk) 21:44, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Ovid99 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• 2603:6010:DE3D:3FF6::/64 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

The 2603:6010:DE3D:3FF6:* IP range and then Ovid99 have made about a thousand edits across 49 articles since 17 May, adding content which is largely original research and often involves the Goths in England. Their edits have been reverted by Spinney Hill at Basingstoke here, XyNq at Basingstoke here, Erp at Godalming here and here, Mako001 at Godmanchester here, Dudley Miles at Kingdom of Kent here and here, Discospinster at Meonwara here and Murgatroyd49 at Winchester here.

I explained original research to the editor at User talk:2603:6010:DE3D:3FF6:5476:8A0C:8792:7BC1#Information not supported by a reference and User talk:Ovid99#June 2022 and started a discussion about the edits at Talk:Anglo-Saxons#Meonwara and Wihtwara, later moved to Wikipedia Talk:WikiProject Anglo-Saxon Kingdoms#Meonwara and Wihtwara, which confirmed that other editors view Ovid99’s edits as original research.

For example in the history section of Meonwara the IP editor added on 28 May that the Meonwara "appear to have been part of the defence of the Sub-Roman polity of Cair Guinntguic",^[1], here The source wikisource:la:Historia Brittonum just lists Cair Guinntguic as one of the cities of Britain, it doesn't say that the Meonwara were part of its defences. Also, the reliability of Historia Brittonum is debatable.

On 16 June Ovid99 edited the sentence to remove "of Cair Guinntguic " and the Historia Brittonum reference here. This is still original research, not supported by the references at the end of the sentence to the Antiquary and the Encyclopedia of Barbarian Europe.^{[2] [3]} The Antiquary Google books link is from 1894 and thus not up to date scholarship. The relevant section is probably ‘’Traces of the Jutes in Hampshire and the Isle of Wight’’ on pages 100 to 104, which mentions the Meonwara on page 101. The Encyclopedia of Barbarian Europe Google books link does not mention the Meonwara and only mentions the Jutes on pages 34 and 361.

Another example is the etymology section of Goddards Green, West Sussex, added here by Ovid99, which links the place name to the Goths and has three references to works by Alexander del Mar, Procopius and Ivan Margary. They don't support the information in the section as Del Mar archive.org link and Procopius UChicago link do not mention Goddards Green and Margary (archive.org link, 1955 edition) just describes the Roman road through it.^{[4] [5][6]} TSventon (talk) 22:08, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A block of a few days to give them some time to read up on what original research is may solve the issue, and would be worth trying before moving to longer duration blocks. Their edits seem to be a mixed bag of good, not-so-good, and then just garbage. The edits to Isle of Thanet were just plain old unexplained deletion. If possible, we'd really want to get them to stop making garbage edits, improve their not-so-good ones, and carry on with the good ones. Being a new editor, I'd want to cut them some slack, particularly since not all their edits seem to be problematic. Mako001 (C)  (T)  🇺🇦 23:50, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. I just followed the normal common sources available to anyone so far as Basingstoke was concerned. Is there a place name or Anglo Saxon scholar who is a wikipedia editor that can help. Spinney Hill (talk) 07:47, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ovid99 also seems to be going through articles on modern towns and villages mainly in Hampshire, and editing the history/ etymology sections eg: Warblington (there are others). The problem is that a lot of these sites are not checked very much and mostly the history sections are small or non existent. My concern is that we now have someone editing these sites with little chance of them being reviewed. As TSventon intimates the sheer breadth and volume of Ovid99 edits makes it difficult to keep up.Wilfridselsey (talk) 11:36, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I’ve seen this too. They’ve done quite a lot of damage to a wide swathe of articles. The volume of edits + WP:IDHT when told about basic policies like WP:OR moves this from content issue to a behaviour/admin issue. A block to stop them until they show willingness to take on board our policies is needed urgently. DeCausa (talk) 11:57, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I second DeCausa's suggestion of a block until they agree to follow policies such as no original research. I have looked at Ovid99's/ the IP's changes to all 49 articles listed above and all but two seem to include original research. The exceptions are reversing vandalism at History of Rochester, Kent here and copy editing at Niskus, e.g. here.

I informed Ovid99 of this discussion, but they seem to be taking a break from editing rather than responding here. TSventon (talk) 14:19, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There is a content dispute @Talk:Tewodros, there are significant differences, and lack of involvement by other editors, that could help in this dispute. This ANI is however not about the content, but about the behaviour of this user. In a ongoing unresolved content dispute, this user is misusing the edit summary [85] misleading other editors, telling this is the outcome per third opinion, which is not the case. [86] Dawit S Gondaria (talk) 03:09, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Who are the random IP's and users that keep reverting to your preferred version? U just dont like the outcome of the 3rd opinion and now requesting another one. The statement was on the article long before you showed up on the page, I merely reverted back to that version with references. Magherbin (talk) 03:31, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Are you implying i'm sockpuppeting? Then don't be dodgy and say it. The direct quote says Walashma princes, so ips/editors that can read the source are reverting/editing to my version. I took upon the 3RO provider [87] to take out a second 3rd opinion, i assumed this was possible, maybe it's not. Then i will look for another avenue for this content dispute. But the issue of this ANI here is your behaviour in misleading other editors with your edit summary in a ongoing unresolved dispute. Dawit S Gondaria (talk) 03:51, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The third opinion was requested by you and you didnt repond to it hence I assumed you agreed with it. You only began editing when I made the revert. The provider asking you take out another 3rd opinion was not to be taken seriously. You posted on my talk page to provide references and when I did you removed them now. Magherbin (talk) 04:15, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Magherbin: The third opinion wasn't in your favor either, the one who gave the third opinion wasn't knowlegdeable enough about the subject to say either or. ( this part about behaviour, not content) Yet you somehow got the idea it's okay to mislead other editors in a edit summary about the outcome of a third opinion, amids a ongoing dispute? Dawit S Gondaria (talk) 04:40, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The filing party also filed a request at the Dispute Resolution Noticeboard. I have closed the DRN request as also pending here. I have not looked into whether this is a content dispute, a conduct dispute, or both. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:16, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

IP 50.67.38.208 continuously repeating the same (or substantially the same) non-constructive/disruptive edits at Abbasid architecture that apparently push a particular POV (i.e. removing or degrading in some way any statement of Iranian/Sassanian/Persian role in the article lead). It started with these: [88], [89]. Then the article was semi-protected for about a week to put a stop to it, as another IP had also joined in (this one), but the original IP has since returned and has been edit-warring ([90], [91], [92]). Has received plenty of warnings on their talk page for this article and for another article they previously edit-warred in. R Prazeres (talk) 04:28, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Blocked x 72 hrs for disruptive editing. -Ad Orientem (talk) 15:23, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The MaBahS (talk · contribs · count) account insists on adding unnecessary tables without sources in the article Rio de Janeiro (see here). Chronus (talk) 15:51, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• No evidence of any attempt to communicate with this user. No evidence of any formal warnings. No evidence of the required notification of this discussion. An examination of their contrib log shows that this is not an experienced editor. Please see WP:BITE. -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:22, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

User User:Noone.eth (and possibly some of his sockpuppets/friends?) are repeatedly edit-forcing content on XCOPY (artist) page, claiming edit wars. Always assume good faith, but they clearly don't seem to understand how Wikipedia works. The repeated usage of WP:TTD, WP:NOT, WP:PRIMARY, WP:NPOV, WP:WBA H:WT and lack of WP:RS has been all over the page, including the exaggeration of unnoteworthy, irrelevant or jargon content which has no place on an encyclopedia Wikipedia. Experienced users like User:Notcharizard have been already trying to revert their edits, but they seem to not stop; on top of that, they are claiming that I'm reverting edits for no reason, so I'm opening this discussion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JohnnyCoal (talk • contribs) 16:10, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have blocked Noone.eth because their repeated use of "we" indicates that this is a shared group account. Cullen328 (talk) 16:38, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Page protected. (edit conflict) Clearly some disruptive editing and likely socking going on. Previous protection failed to deter so I have protected x 2 weeks. Ad Orientem (talk) 16:40, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

2001:448A:10CE:1B97:E503:EEE6:8EBC:7F0D (talk · contribs) appears to be traveling well-trod territory in Malaysian media articles. 2601:188:180:B8E0:0:0:0:D869 (talk) 00:51, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

User:Akoikollie has been repeatedly reverting 1 byte edits on their user page, I assume in attempt to farm edit count for confirmation. I didn't think it belonged in any other notice board categories so I am putting it here. I noticed these rapid edits while looking at the edit filter log, where these edits were picked up as "New account suspicious activity". ~XyNq^t_c 01:03, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have a theory. They are trying for extended-confirmed status. Why? There’s a clue in the one Wiktionary entry they wrote. They used “Cornelius Keagon” as a definition. Who is Cornelius Keagon? I don’t know, but that page on Wikipedia was salted, and until very recently required extended-confirmed status to recreate. In the past few days it was changed to require administrator access to recreate. Wise and timely move! — rsjaffe 🗣️ 01:26, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Probably User:Cornelius Keagon. Same IP range as the last sock, too. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 01:38, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• OrionNimrod (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) great removal of sourced content, without conesus at https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Trianon and https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Romania. Vladdy Daddy Silly (talk) 02:42, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Not a vandal. See WP:NOTVAND and use talk page to resolve your dispute. So far neither of you have used any talk page.[93][94] >>> Extorc.talk 03:57, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This user went through my page reverting edits where I was correcting articles and adding translations for names in their native languages, as is quite common on here. he only left the comment "no Indic scripts" which I could not find and basis in wikipedia guidelines for. I see he also has a lot of other complaints on his page for disruptive editing and edit warring. Not sure if he is some kind of troll but I would like mods to take a look. I would like to come to a resolution as I really don't understand this guys motives or if there was some kind of confusion going on. Many thanks.

edit: I just found the rule on it, and though I don't quite understand it it seems to only apply to articles on India. Four of my articles edits that were reverted were on non-Indian topics. User:Vif12vf has indeed acted outside the bounds of wikipedia conduct

This avoidance of Indic scripts only applies to articles that are predominantly India-related and is excluded from, among others, articles about Hinduism, Buddhism, or any of India's neighbouring countries. It is a divergence from the usual practice of including non-Latin script in leads when it is arguably relevant (e.g. "Athens ... Greek: Αθήνα ..." at the article Athens).

 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Josepherino (talk • contribs) 03:51, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply] 

@Josepherino: I don't know and frankly don't care who's right, but why on earth are you at ANI rather than discussing this with the editor concerned? Nil Einne (talk) 04:31, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

His page is full of people contesting his edits and he doesn't seem to respond to them. I've also tried to contact him and nothing went through. Josepherino (talk) 04:33, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Josepherino: Unless you've carefully analysed each specific case, you have no idea what went on so what other people may have done is irrelevant. And you contacted them less than 1 hour ago. People aren't expected to live on Wikipedia, it's ridiculous to expect an editor to respond in 7 minutes (the time from when you posted to their talk page to when you posted here) to a dispute which is in no way urgent [95]. I'll be blunt, if you aren't willing to discuss disputes with people before escalating things to ANI, including giving them adequate time to respond, then sorry but Wikipedia is not the place for you. Nil Einne (talk) 04:42, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm new to this so I'm not yet aware of the protocols, I'll delete this, revert the edits that wikipedia rules allow, and then I'll discuss with him. thanks Josepherino (talk) 04:46, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Josepherino: yes, there are many guidelines to keep track of – yet another one is this one, which says that in most cases, you shouldn't delete talk page or notice board discussions where other editors have responded. The thread will be archived in a few days if nobody posts to it. Regards, --bonadea contributions talk 07:48, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

its like stepping through a minefield here! Sorry though, didn't realize. I'll have to pay more attention Josepherino (talk) 07:50, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Bobby Sen (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)

Despite several warnings and messages on their talk pages, the user does not agree with WP's maintenance templates on article pages and removes them without resolving the underlying issues. See [96], [97], [98], [99]. In the past the user edit warred to remove AfD/CSD templates on articles [that they created]. See their talk page sections: April 2021, July 2021, September 2021, March 2022, Warning: start using edit summaries, Tendentious editing at The Kashmir Files (both from Bishonen), May 2022, Don't remove tag, June 2022. I see a bit of WP:CIR issue with an I don't care attitude. — DaxServer (t · m · c) 09:19, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

While it is admittedly concerning to see so many warnings on a user's talk page, I'm not sure I clearly see the issue with the four diffs that you've posted here. In three of them, they're removing a {{Sources exist}} template from articles that have anywhere from 7-13 sources. I haven't done an in-depth analysis of the quality of those sources, but it at least seems plausible that 7-13 references might be adequate for these relatively short articles. In the fourth diff, they're removing a {{More plot}} template from an empty plot section (and removing the empty plot section as well). I'm not sure if it's standard practice to create empty sections within an article solely for the purpose of housing cleanup templates, so I'm kinda ok with that one too. Do you have any more egregious examples of this behavior? Otherwise, I'm not seeing anything actionable here. Admittedly, I haven't gone through the user's other contributions in any depth. But at first glance, I don't see evidence of a lot of their edits being reverted. It is concerning, however, that this user seems to almost never engage with other editors, or even respond to other editors' messages. —⁠ScottyWong⁠— 03:51, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have read the above message. I will reply when I have a moment. — DaxServer (t · m · c) 10:09, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

User:20SS00 has recently created over 200 categories to classify biographical articles by cause of death and, particulary, by cause of death by location. I'm not the first to find that these are not generally defining categories, WP:CATDEF, and I just filed one collection of them to be considered for deletion at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 June 20#Cardiac arrest deaths. It seems I'm not the first to bring this concern to the 20SS00's attention:

• The user was asked in April not to create such categories because they aren't defining.
• At least two categories have been submitted for speedy deletion under WP:CSD G4, indicating (I think) that the user would have been notified on bringing the category up for creation that it had been previously deleted. One of them is Category:Cardiovascular disease deaths in Thailand; see the user notification for one of them.

I'm posting this here out of concern that these are indeed undesirable categories and that the user may continue to create large numbers of them. Examples of earlier deletion discussions of such categories, suggesting that my concern about the inappropriateness of these categories is legitimate, include Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 November 12#Deaths from cardiovascular disease and Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2015 September 15#Cardiovascular disease deaths. Largoplazo (talk) 12:26, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• I share Largoplazo's concerns. 20SS00 did not respond to my suggestion on their talk page that they stop creating such categories, which had previously been deleted by consensus, and went on to create more today. --Paul_012 (talk) 16:47, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I find his editorial behavior very puzzling, he thinks adding climate data to the article will affect the layout of the article. But that's not a valid reason for him to purge the climate class template, and there are plenty of articles with climate data to disprove his point, like Yerbogachen or Antipayuta.

His earliest such misconduct began with the article Ciboure, and he has since deleted more than a dozen articles on climate data. I used to give proper reminders and warnings on his user page, but he still goes his own way and provokes my talk page. 迷斯拉10032号 (talk) 14:31, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Anyone concerned, please see here: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Weather#Climate_sections_in_articles_on_individual_towns. Eric ^talk 16:26, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest both editors engage at the discussion Eric started at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Weather and resolve the content dispute, hopefully with the engagement of other weather/geo-interested editors. Also, 迷斯拉10032号 needs to stop forum-shopping; they've brought this up here, WP:AIV, and WP:Teahouse. Schazjmd (talk) 16:34, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

So the big thing about the climate template and the layout is the fact that the parameter "width=auto" isn't automatically inside the template. It was suggested to be added a long time ago, but for some reason was never incorporated. This fixes the whitespace layout issues and is the solution instead of deleting the template that is used on thousands of articles. Canterbury Tail talk 16:37, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the input. Just to be clear: I did nothing to the template itself; I merely undid the user's implementation of it on a number of articles, which I found to be poorly done (and without summaries). Eric ^talk 16:40, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I understand. The lack of this parameter being defaulted in has been a thorn in my side as well for exactly the ridiculous whitespace issues it causes, especially on smaller articles, on some resolutions without the parameter. With the parameter it generally plays nicely and fits in fine. (even better if we set it to collapsed by default.) Canterbury Tail talk 16:44, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Flahistory (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Byrd Spilman Dewey (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Teahouse#A_person_I_know_is_vandalizing_a_page

The editor in question has been asserting article ownership by reporting that they maintain a page, and complaining at the Teahouse that an editor who edited the page was vandalizing it. There was no vandalism, only a content dispute complicated by yelling vandalism to "win" the content dispute. There appears to be a content dispute, and the editor in question is trying both on-wiki contact and off-wiki contact (Facebook) to contact the other editor, User:Curiositykeeper. The editor in question also filed a case at DRN asking to have edits to the page rolled back. Flahistory is using the page to promote a book that they have written about the subject of the article. The DRN case was properly closed by User:Nightenbelle due to lack of prior discussion.

There are issues of article ownership and conflict of interest. Robert McClenon (talk) 14:55, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• It strikes me at this point as a minor dust-up. There's some disagreement about the removal of a passage. Flahistory also appears to be a bit aggressive in their response. There's nothing blockable here. I'll make a caution to the concerned editor at the talk page of the article, but otherwise I don't see there's much to do here yet. --Hammersoft (talk) 17:45, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This user has not made a single edit that was not at least partially a copyright violation. I warned them after catching a copyvio they did on Pollution on June 13, and promptly found every single edit they had made up to that point was also a copyright violation. Today, they created List of NFT Games which is a blatant copyright violation as well. On top of that, they first created Draft:List of NFT Games and then performed a copy paste move to article space. All attempts at communication have been ignored. The only solution is a block at this point to prevent further copyright violations. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 18:40, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Blocked indefinitely for persistent copyright violations. --Hammersoft (talk) 19:05, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Yohusenofyipyuesuen (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Flora Cheung (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
• Draft:Flora Cheung (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

This account is a single-purpose account whose objective is to get Flora Cheung into article space by any means necessary, against the efforts of User:Praxidicae, User:DoubleGrazing, User:Theroadislong, User:Scope creep, and others. A block is in order, as is salt. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:18, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

they're only here to spam fancruft, so i say block them indefinitely until they get a clue. PRAXIDICAE🌈 19:20, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Salted and blocked for 72 hours for DE. (possible conflict with Prax) EvergreenFir (talk) 19:23, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Good luck on stopping the spam. Of the 339 edits on en wiki, I believe every single one was about Flora Cheung. User also has an account on zh wiki, with 1223 edits. On the first page of edits, it appears that every single one was about Flora Cheung. Has 27 edits on commons. 18 were deleted; the remaining 9 seem to be pictures of Flora Cheung. — rsjaffe 🗣️ 21:35, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• NikolaosFanaris (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• AkisAr-26 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

User:NikolaosFanaris:

1. falsely claimed I'm sugarcoating and admiring criminals and neonazis [103][104][105]
2. deleted an ANI to avoid a ban (and lied about it) [106]
3. falsely claimed I am affiliated with a far-right party [107]
4. raised COI against me in which he lied in order to convince the admin [108]

My efforts to resolve this on his page were deleted.[109] AkisAr-26 (talk) 19:59, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Before we look at the other editor, who has not been perfectly civil, let's talk about you. How did you find ANI on your 53rd edit to Enwiki [110]? Admittedly you had a handful or prior edits to el.wikipedia.org, but not enough to be this familiar with process. It looks very much like you've had a prior account. Please address whether you have ever edited Wikipedia using a different account. Jehochman ^Talk 20:15, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I've been doing math for decades. Is it hard to look through 30 pages of WP documentation to figure out how to ANI? Besides if I knew how to do it properly I wouldn't have waste hours to write a detailed report. I would have done what did now. AkisAr-26 (talk) 05:41, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I just realized you added me as "suspicious"[111] (I am assuming this initiates an investigation against me as well?). Apart from "ANI on [my] 53rd edit" is there another reason you did? AkisAr-26 (talk) 06:32, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

If there are still personal attacks on a live page, you may feel free to remove them. It is permitted for any editor to remove what is unevociably a personal attack. I doubt any other action will come of this report when there are no new violations. Regards, User:TheDragonFire300. (Contact me | Contributions). 04:32, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

How can I remove them? Do I just delete them? AkisAr-26 (talk) 05:32, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Follow the instructions listed and replace the problematic material with {{RPA}}. Make sure that the material removed would not be construed by a reasonable editor as anything more than a personal attack, and post a diff here when finished so that the removal can be reviewed (as it's your first time refactoring talk pages). Regards, User:TheDragonFire300. (Contact me | Contributions). 05:44, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the guidance. Please see if I did it correctly [112]. It does work in removing PA but not sure what is considered PA. Are obvious lies about me PA? Baseless accusations? Should I remove them too? Also, can't I just mark the whole discussion as RPA? Otherwise it will take quite a while to search all his references to me. AkisAr-26 (talk) 06:00, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

See also Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1099#NikolaosFanaris: continuous baseless accusations against me. — rsjaffe 🗣️ 20:41, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

So there are no new incidents? This is a rehash of a month ago. ANI is preventative, not punitive and it seems in this case to have worked without any blocks or bans neccessary. WP:DROPTHESTICK as without new diffs, there is nothing for this board to discuss. Slywriter (talk) 20:52, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I already attempted to provide the same advice/guidance User talk:Ponyo#Unresolved report in ANI archived. What should I do?, to no avail.-- Jezebel's Ponyo^{bons mots} 21:15, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You did not address the ongoing defamation and the fact I could delete the offensive material. I do thank you for the rest of the guidance though. AkisAr-26 (talk) 05:34, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I understand. I don't mind him not getting a ban. I simply want to remove the defamation and ensure he doesn't do it again. Doesn't it get noted so that if he offends in the future it shows he's done it before as well? AkisAr-26 (talk) 05:47, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Don't worry, I will not "defame" you again in the future. NikolaosFanaris (talk) 08:31, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate that. Could you remove all such content with the {{RPA}} tag? AkisAr-26 (talk) 08:42, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Will proceed with the removal in due course. NikolaosFanaris (talk) 09:05, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'd appreciate this is done promptly, preferably before this ANI resolution. I'm not saying you'll postpone it intentionally indefinitely after doing 1-2 edits, but I just want to make sure my concerns are addressed. Thanks. AkisAr-26 (talk) 09:44, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I received this ‘warning (threat?) on my talkpage. Likely linked to my reply to the message user:XLinkBot#Error Grid. I have reverted the warning, but it suggests that there is some background editing going on which may need to be scrutinized (I don’t believe this is pure standalone). I’d appreciate some independent handling of this. Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 20:28, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That's clearly some troll-child messing around. I say revert and ignore. see this PRAXIDICAE🌈 20:31, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Asdfghjkl9658 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)

Despite multiple warnings and urgings over the last couple of years this user has so far not responded one single time. Is there any policy how to deal with Wiki behaviour like this – or should we say lack thereof? Antique Rose 20:46, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Another question is why is such an absurd and hard to read username allowed on here?--2A00:23C4:3E08:4001:2D32:2A48:E944:B665 (talk) 20:59, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Lol, look at your username. —⁠ScottyWong⁠— 03:37, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Question -- behavior like what? Is there a link or reference you'd like to provide?--Paul McDonald (talk) 21:43, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Looking over their talk page and contribs after I came across them yesterday, and as I noted on their talk, it's a clear case of WP:RADAR. Any more disruptive edits, or refusal to engage and I'll block them. - CorbieVreccan ^☊ ☼ 00:14, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

They've edited twice since the final warning. The edits themselves are minor and not disruptive, though they are still not using edit summaries. I'll be shocked if they actually engage here, but I'll give them a chance to answer this here at ANI, in case hell has frozen over. Also concur that they should have been warned about the username long ago. - CorbieVreccan ^☊ ☼ 00:20, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

User(s) blocked: Asdfghjkl9658 (talk · contribs). They kept on with the same pattern after warnings and being asked to come here. Only 24 hours as it's the first time. If they don't shape up we'll revisit and up it. - CorbieVreccan ^☊ ☼ 00:40, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Vinnylospo (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)

I am reporting this user because they have added a bunch of unwanted categories and memes to their article. They also added a section of "memes" or similar that were completely irrelevant. It was like a list of memes, so I think they are just trying to get views by making the article longer, but it's not helping anyone.

Source: 1 2 3 4 5 6 ~ Junior5a (Talk) Cont 22:02, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Junior5a: Your diff #5 is the same as diff #1, and I don't see anything about a section of "memes" or similar that were completely irrelevant that was added by this user. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 04:14, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure it was had multiple warnings last months ago.

While I checked this contribute but I see there is problem about BLP and somewhat warning. ~ Junior5a (Talk) Cont 05:28, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Politicalwikifan (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Independent-Green Party US (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

This user appeared out of nowhere during an AfD to blank the nomination page and replace the content with an {{Old AfD multi}} template; they also removed the AfD tag from the article and added the {{Old AfD multi}} template to the talk page. This followed about 3 hours after Jackrobert007 (talk · contribs) added sources to the article and 2.5 hours after their last comment at the AfD. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 03:59, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Why did you go here straight away instead of discussing the matter with the editor?Lurking shadow (talk) 09:09, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Coming here was reasonable under the circumstances. CU confirms that this is a sock of Jackrobert007. Master blocked one week, sock indeffed. Girth Summit _(blether) 10:04, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

JamesJohn82 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Hi, the User:JamesJohn82 has given me two warnings for disruptive edits even though I left detailed comments in the edits/reverts I did. I tried to leave some details about his edits on his talk page but they were removed by him. Kenm v2 (talk) 10:25, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I see you used the talk page. JamesJohn82 did not. JamesJohn gave you notices that do not seem consistent with what you were doing. I noticed you made a minor error in applying policy and guidelines - removing content from your own talkpage is normally an exception from the removal prohibition on talk pages.

JamesJohn82, can you explain your actions, please?Lurking shadow (talk) 11:23, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, yes, I left a couple of topics on his talk page related to the edits I did.

And understood on the removal prohibition. Kenm v2 (talk) 12:09, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I would find that the refusal to even acknowledge abuse of warning templates on the part of JamesJohn82 to be unacceptable on its own. In fact, we have a warning series for that. Regards, User:TheDragonFire300. (Contact me | Contributions). 11:54, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: I've temporarily blocked JamesJohn82 for advertising since they continue to add the jagatguru link. --RegentsPark (comment) 13:30, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The User Semsûrî who have already started an Editwar in the page Melek Taûs to push his POV calls me a troll in the edit summary.(see here the diff link) Dortana (talk) 21:56, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

See also Wikipedia:No personal attacks Dortana (talk) 21:59, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I mentioned your behavior to an admin just moments ago.[113] You are a NOTHERE editor for me. You keep removing well-sourced information and then complain about an edit war. Also, you have received six warnings from me in less than a month. Don't complain when I call you a troll then. Semsûrî (talk) 22:03, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This is not a reason to attack other editors and call them a troll. I have just changed the page back to the revision before the Editwar that you have started took place. You have only pushed your POV there. Dortana (talk) 22:09, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The edit war is taking place because YOU keep removing well-sourced information. Read Wikipedia:IJDLI which I have urged you to do before. I'm not going to entertain this nonsense anylonger. Semsûrî (talk) 22:12, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This is what I mean by trolling.[114] You dislike the well-sourced content for whatever reason and thus put in some templates. It screams NOTHERE. Semsûrî (talk) 22:18, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You shouldn't insult other users just because they don't endorse your POV. Dortana (talk) 22:28, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

At both: Please stop edit-warring and talk this through in the talk page. Semsûrî, please assume good faith. Wikipedia is not a battleground. Not everyone who disagrees with you is a troll, and you may not assume that they are unless you have really strong evidence. Disagreements happen. Use the talk page a bit more, explain why you want to insert or retain that material, discuss the reliability of your source, due weight... but please remain civil. Incivility can(and eventually will) get you blocked and hurts your credibility.Lurking shadow (talk) 22:40, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Lurking shadow Good faith is difficult to maintain by now as I know how Dortana behaves Even when they do use the talkpage its mostly with nonsensical explanations[115] If I never get a meaningful answer and they keep reverting, what more can I do? I stand by my NOTHERE and IJDLI. In regards to my bad faith and my evidence, I have this Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Ezidishingali but sadly a stale investigation. I'm impatiently and frustratingly waiting for an admin to take the case. Until then I guess I have to deal with this annoyance. Semsûrî (talk) 23:08, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Semsûrî, I am an administrator and you have been edit warring, which is a blockable offense. You are warned to stop. Dortana, you have been edit warring, which is a blockable offense. You are warned to stop. Semsûrî, you have been engaging in personal attacks, which is also a blockable offense. Calling a good faith editor a "troll" over a content dispute is not appropriate, so stop it. This is a content dispute, which should be resolved through discussion on the article talk page rather than through edit warring. Various forms of dispute resolution are available. Use them and work to build a consensus. Cullen328 (talk) 00:05, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• On 9 June Volunteer Marek (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) said that according to me Kidnapping of children after murdering their parent and forcibly Russyfying them is not a "war crime" but benevolent adoption by loving Russians [116]. I immediately told them that this was a gross misrepresentation of what I'd been arguing for and asked them to strike through their comment [117], but they didn't comply.
• On 20 June VM repeated that claim and made it even more ludicrous: I had made comments, they said, in which I claimed that kidnapping Ukraine children should be described as "adoption" and "naturalization" and that carrying out murders as part of a genocide aren't a war crime [118]. I asked them to provide a diff, they published this comment of mine and repeated that it proves that I am proposing to refer to the kidnapping of Ukrainian children (after their parents were murdered by Russian soldiers) as "Naturalisation" and "Adoption". In the same comment your wording actually manages to imply that it was in the interest of the (Ukrainian) child to have their parents killed and then be adopted by some Russians. [119].
• VM was referring to this discussion. Note the following:

1. As I mentioned in that discussion, I was one of the first editors who inserted in the article contents on forced deportations to Russia and arbitrary detention of Ukrainian civilians. On 24 March I added a reference to deportations in the lead [120], on 27 March I added allegations of illegal detention [121] and I created a section on detention of civilians and torture [122], on 29 March and 2 April I added many contents and sources about deportations [123] [124] [125]. Lastly on 2 June I added contents and sources on forced deportation of children [126]. All these edits show that I believe, or rather know, that forced deportation is a war crime.
2. Apart from knowing it, I also repeatedly said it. In the discussion VM mentioned, I said again and again that forced deportation of children is a war crime: This is a Wikipedia article on war crimes, thus we use "deportation" (or force displacement), we don't use "kidnapping", just like we use (wilful) killing of civilians, not assassination (or murder) of peaceful citizens [127], Of course I agree with this! Forced deportations of civilian is a serious war crime. [128], n. 2 [Kidnapping is not a war crime] is entirely false: where did you get this from? [129]. AdrianHObradors (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) even warned VM, @Volunteer Marek please, try to refrain from making personal attacks and assumptions. @Gitz isn't arguing that kidnapping children is or isn't a war crime, that is not the subject of discussion there [130]
3. In that discussion I made the following points.
   1. First, we'd better use the "forced deportations" terminology instead of speaking of "kidnapping". This view got consensus but unfortunately VM kept on forcing the "kidnapping" terminology upon the article, as they claim that "deportation" is an euphemistic weasel word for kidnapping [131] [132] [133]. I soon gave up reverting their edits simply out of boredom and frustration.
   2. Secondly, I argued that the Russian Duma drafting a law on adoption does not amount to a war crime in itself, no reliable source claim that it does, and therefore we should not report it. I wrote the following: I don't think that this decree is an act of generosity by the Russian state - not at all. But we cannot even depict it as a war crime (...) There are many different interests at stake here, and the interest of Ukraine in avoiding Russian naturalisations is only one (and relatively minor compared to the interests of the child). So this kind of content belongs to an article on Naturalisation during the 2022 invasion of Ukraine or Adoption during the 2022 invasion of Ukraine. We cannot just say that it is "background and context" to an alleged war crime (forced deportation) and report it without any scrutiny directly from the Facebook account of Denisova. [134]. I haven't changed my mind on this; apparently I did not get consensus and we didn't drop that reference to the new Russian law on adoption. Maybe I was right, maybe I was wrong, but anyway editors must be allowed to share their views in an open discussion without being offended, trivialized and denigrated.
   3. Finally, I argued that genocide is not a war crime - which is simply true, genocide is not a war crime (see here a discussion and here a few references). For some reason this view (which is not a view actually, it's a fact) didn't get consensus either, and we still have a section on genocide. But no one could ever maintain that carrying out murders as part of a genocide aren't a war crime. Contrary to what VM claims, I've never said or even thought something so absurd.

• In attributing these views to me VM was deliberately and grossly misrepresenting my arguments. This way of doing is contrary to our policies and guidelines (WP:CIV, WP:GF) and is especially disruptive in a sensitive area as this one.
• This was not a one-off. VM is used to attributing mean intentions to fellow editors. A few examples.
• On the 18 June VM repeatedly removed a section on a missile that fell on Donetsk killing 23 civilians [135] [136]. As Donetsk is controlled by a self-proclaimed secessionist republic, it's possible that the missile was fired by the Ukrainian army. The incident was reported by Reuters and The Guardian, among others, and the section had been there since mid-March. Other editors, including me, didn't agree on removing the section and asked VM to discuss on the talk page. Which they did in the following way: we absolutely must have an article and text in this article about THAT ONE maybe-Ukrainian missile!!!!!! Because "balance" or some shit. I'm sorry but that kind of approach is just sick. And it's the quintessence of violating WP:UNDUE to push a POV ("both sides do it!!!!") [137]. VM claimed that there had been constant and repeated attempts to turn this article into a piece of Russian propaganda, and that If we were being honest here we'd have text on every single one of those tens of thousands missiles fired on civilian targets by Russia (actually we have nearly 20 sections on indiscriminate attacks by the Russian army, some of them with much smaller casualties that this one; we've basically been reporting what WP:RS say, that's it). In fact VM is now trying to have the main article March 2022 Donetsk attack (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) cancelled and in the meantime they are making a total mess out of it: [138]. But the point is: whitewashing Russian war crimes, not being honest, attempting to use Wikipedia as a Russian propaganda vehicle... how dare they say so?
• On 3 June, Of course genocide can be a war crime! Wth? Do I need to draw a Venn Diagram here? (...) This isn't hard and removing this info looks insanely bad faithed [139]. What, whose bad faith is VM talking about? On 22 May, speaking to Luizpuodzius (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), If you're gonna come to an article in order to push a particular POV it helps if you actually bother reading it first, otherwise the WP:ADVOCACY and the WP:NOTHERE are kind of obvious [140]. And it goes on and on like that, VM's behaviour is unacceptable: talking to me and to Ilenart626 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), they said What you and Illenart are doing here is trying to give the readers a very skewed presentation of what reliable source say and falsely convince them that reliable sources portray Ukrainian war crimes as on par with Russian ones [141].
• Also their edit summaries are often unnecessarily offensive, threatening and contrary to Wikipedia:Assume good faith: Please stop trying to whitewash war crimes by sprinkling "alleged" in front of everything. That's a pretty clear violation of POV. [142] Seriously anyone who tries to claim that the murders in Bucha are only "alleged" needs a quick trip to WP:AE [143] these may very well be (are) human rights violations and crimes, but they are not "war crimes" and none of the sources actually label these as such. This is just another attempt at bothsideism [144] undo the obvious POVing and obnoxious attempts at whitewashing [145] you REALLY need to stop with this awful POV and white washing [146] no, these are obviously highly POV changes, they are not supported by sources and frankly, given the nature of this topic the changes amount to some very problematic and disruptive attempts to whitewash some horrendous shit [147]
• I find the accusation of being a Russian POV-pusher quite insulting. First of all I'm a friend of the Ukrainian people, also my family originates from that region, I think that Putin is a violent dictator, that the war is an unlawful aggression, that the Russian army has committed hideous war crimes in Ukraine, and I'd very much welcome if the perpetrators will be held on account. I wrote nearly 1/3 of the article War crimes in the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, which means that I've spent dozens of hours documenting and describing horrible war crimes committed by the Russian army (here a selection of some of my edits on Russian crimes [148][149][150] [151] [152] [153] [154] [155] [156] [157] [158] [159] [160] [161] [162] [163] [164] [165] [166] [167] [168] [169] [170] [171] [172] [173] [174] [175] [176] [177] ).
• On the other hand VM, who always speaks about POV and WP:UNDUE, is the most blatant and disruptive POV-pusher I've ever encountered. They even reached the point of questioning whether shooting Russian POWs in the legs amounts to torture [178] [179] - seriously? They asked for RS stating that kneecapping is torture, they were given a lot of them [180] [181] and it's all ok, but it takes time and it's disturbing and frankly there's no need of it. On multiple occasion I had to revert VM pushing badly sourced war propaganda into the article [e.g., [182]), making gross misrepresentations of reliable sources [e.g., [183]) and removing an "alleged" here and there [e.g., [184]).
• I've tried to address their tendentious editing on their talk page, but what I got was not very encouraging Explain to me why I should bother reading past your first two and a half sentences [185]
• VM's edits summaries and comments show the basic and constant features of their contribution to the article (and possibly elsewhere): aggression, rudeness, lack of cooperation and a prevailing almost exclusive concern for the question "who is more guilty?" (the obvious answer being the Russians). VM gives a comparatively small contribution to the writing of the article and an enormous, often disruptive contribution to finding the "right balance", which for them always falls in one direction: emphasising the responsibilities of the Russians (which are indeed huge and catastrophic) and downplaying those of the Ukrainians (which occasionally are serious and worrying). They like playing the role of the self-appointed political commissar on that article, and they've done so in the most offensive, uncooperative and partisan way, always attributing mean intentions to fellow editors ("obnoxious attempts at whitewashing", "awful POV", "attempts to whitewash", etc.). They cannot even imagine that others might have good-faith reasons, different from "whitewashing", for mentioning Ukrainian war crimes in the lead and reporting them elsewhere in the article: e.g. trying to be objective and detached, trying to gain authoritativeness through independence, and trying to do justice to all the victims, no matter their nationality.
• In what follows I was not the victim of their insults, but still seeing a fellow editor Dunutubble (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) treated in this way is humiliating and intimidating: For fuck's sake, this also restores the idiotic notion that two Russian soldiers being poisoned by some pies is ... ... CHEMICAL WARFARE!!! Gimme a break. There's absolutely no source for such a claim (probably because it's patently ridiculous). The given source certainly doesn't say anything so stupid. But it's also frankly offensive (...) even attempting such a comparison is offensive, vulgar and dishonest. I am very tempted to report this fairly transparent violation of WP:POINT. [186]
• This is the way they express their view and I find it aggressive, even abusive. We have a policy (WP:IDENTIFYUNCIVIL) that aims at protecting us from belittling a fellow editor, including the use of judgemental edit summaries or talk-page posts (e.g. "that is the stupidest thing I have ever seen", "snipped crap"). No editor in good faith should ever be exposed to such a treatment.
• Luckily User:Dunutubble is very calm and reflective and reacted like a true pro saying that Throwing a WP:TANTRUM is not the correct reaction to someone who made an effort to restore many of your edits. But unfortunately Anonimu (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) was less cool-headed. They reacted very badly to VM's editing style and started to repeatedly call VM a "vandal". So on 12 April VM submitted a request for enforcement and Anonimu was topic banned. Anonimu brought it upon themselves, no doubt, but I think that they were reacting to a deliberately provocative and contentious approach, which proved to be highly destructive on that article and talk page.
• I had warned against the risk of escalating the inevitable conflicts among editors: We are working here on a delicate article and we need to discuss in a peaceful and argumentative environment [187]. It's incredibly time-consuming and stressing to work in an environment poisoned by VM. I know they've been around for a long time, but I'm asking you to protect from them both the editors as individuals and the editorial processes taking place in an article as delicate and controversial as War crimes in the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) Gitz (talk) (contribs) 00:33, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  It appears to me that you are bringing here a content dispute Gitz6666. There are other ways to resolve disagreements, you know. You may want to consider outside input to assist in resolving your disputes such as asking for participation from uninvolved editors to create consensus for your desired modifications. Consider also Neutral point of view noticeboard – you can submit inquiries about the objectiveness of articles or Request for comment (RfC) to request replies from a number of editors. If you have an issue with the behaviour of a given editor, the first step would be to talk to them on their user talk page in a polite, simple, and direct manner. Have you tried that other than confrontational accusations of disruptive and tendenciousness editing? I will not be suprised if this report ends up in a WP:BOOMERANG -->[188] - GizzyCatBella🍁 02:22, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  I agree with everything Gitz has stated about Volunteer Marek’s conduct. In addition to VM’s abusive language, pov pushing and disruptive edits, he constantly writes misleading edit summaries and when you review his changes you find other changes not mentioned buried in the edits. Plus I have also noticed for any article he does not like he will place a pov tag without leaving any comments in the talk page. Ilenart626 (talk) 04:48, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]