• Archive 1: March 17, 2005 - April 22, 2007
• Archive 2: April 26, 2007 - August 10, 2008

Greetings! You are invited to attend the second annual New York picnic on August 24! This year, it will be taking place in the Long Meadow of Prospect Park in Brooklyn. If you plan on coming, please sign up and be sure to bring something! Please be sure to come!
You have received this automated delivery because your name was on the invite list. BrownBot (talk) 20:24, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

This is a reminder that the WikiNYC Picnic is tomorrow (August 24) from 2 PM to 8 PM. If you plan on being lost, be sure to come ahead of time! To clarify, the picnic will be taking place within or adjacent to the Picnic House in Prospect Park, Brooklyn. I hope to see you there! --harej 03:21, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

I fail to see how your explanation for the reverting re: the Mackenzie Calhoun page applies. Star Trek takes place in the future. It's fictional medicine is far advanced. The scar could be removed in seconds, but it is not, therefore he has chosen to keep it. Lots42 (talk) 22:01, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, I'd have to disagree with you (politely). Many of the Calhoun books mention this and the extent of Star Trek medicine has been demonstrated dozens and dozens of times. Lots42 (talk) 03:54, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

I went to the episode you linked to and found no mention of any medical technological levels. Feel free to correct me or link to something else. As for the rest of your comment, that is what I was trying to make clear; I wil attempt to find one of the books mentioning Calhoun's desire to keep the scar. I believe that will be a sufficent enough link, considering Calhoun has only appeared in the novels and one graphic novel. Lots42 (talk) 11:15, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

??? The three examples you gave me don't actually bolster your opinion. We have a crazy Cardassian, a proud Klingon, who like Calhoun, chooses not to revert, and some people off screen who for all we know were on their way to Sickbay to get scars reverted. Lots42 (talk) 14:34, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Um, no, we DO know the scar can be removed but Mac chooses not to, because it is said several times in many novels. I will look for one of these novels in order to cite it, I do not have access to them at the moment. Lots42 (talk) 23:29, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Do not remove my talkpage comments, as you did here [1] Swampfire (talk) 00:44, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Yeah I wrote that and as far as I know there was no valid reason to delete what i wrote in the 1st place. It was credible info. There was no reason to delete it. Thanks. Rwhollywoodfan (talk) 01:53, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Take it easy. I put the quote in there because it was relevent information. You did not have to remove it. You had no reason to do that. You don't need to block me. But like I said before, there was NO REASON TO REMOVE IT! Thanks.Rwhollywoodfan (talk) 22:42, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

I apologize. I didn't see that. My sincere apologies. Thanks for the help. Rwhollywoodfan (talk) 05:08, 17 August 2008 (UTC

Filming already started for almost 3 weeks now so please change it to "Filming for the season began August 2008" if you will. There are many pictures to proove it. And also all over Vevmo.com74.196.134.34 (talk) 19:35, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I should have thought of that. :-) --GentlemanGhost (talk) 01:29, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

RE : Morales personal life. That's weird I thought the citation had the information where he was divorced twice.

Anyway it's in the below link : http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=112859

Do you think it's worth inclusion in his article? Stextc (talk) 06:40, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

I updated the infobox and checked through the article using the site for the purposes of WP:V. The problem with just relying on primary sources is that you can miss things which is why we ask for independent third party sources just as back-up really. Not foolproof, obviously, but if there had have been a disparity I'd have investigated further.

I'm also looking around for out of universe material (especially on character creation), as the article needs it, but can't find any. (Emperor (talk) 14:16, 10 September 2008 (UTC))

All edits that move things forward can be considered as "constructing" an article. In the end I really don't care and if you don't like it where it is, then move it. (Emperor (talk) 16:05, 10 September 2008 (UTC))

Whatever you think is the best, after all edits are always provisional and as long as the article isn't going backwards then I don't mind.

I have also had a good look around and not found much else on the character other than someone in an article on Countdown which described him as Wolverine meets Bane, which isn't that useful but I must admit to think "retractable claws? Wolverine?" but that doesn't mean that is where the idea came from, it is just there isn't much from the creators on the character design. Pity, but I'll keep an eye out. (Emperor (talk) 13:37, 11 September 2008 (UTC))

I have updated the talk page with the verifiable info —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stumpy6639 (talk • contribs) 20:19, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

I'll delete it every time when that badly written. Just do the rewrite as I requested and all will be fine. Asgardian (talk) 17:28, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Deleting information that is not to Wiki-standards is fine. As I said before, just rewrite it. I was going to do it anyway. But please don't make silly threats. Let's just get on with the business of editing. Asgardian (talk) 12:06, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Can you talk me through your block of Asgardian? I don't quite see what the block was for, so I'd appreciate being walked through it since I must be missing something. Ta. Hiding T 09:02, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for your input regarding Asgardian's block. I left a message in the discussion on Daniel's Talk Page. Nightscream (talk) 06:16, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

I've read that, and the discussion at User talk:Hiding as well. And have commented at the latter. - jc37 09:06, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Okay, now I'm getting confused. What was the block of Asgardian for in the first place? The stated reason is persistently removing material, but if the only examples we have are the three edits you gave me, that's not persistent and it isn't a breach of policy; he's allowed to remove unsourced material. You're right, it doesn't mean he should, but he shouldn't get blocked for it. Whether a previous involvement with a user precludes you from making a block is a hard one. I had this issue a while ago at Pat Lee, and because I'd edited the article, even though it was to revert BLP violating edits, it meant I had become involved. I don't really know how it works, but I think a rule of thumb on Wikipedia is that you don't block someone who makes personal attacks against you. Did you check with Daniel Case before or after the block? With regards tem[;ates. no, there are certainly two ways of looking at it. All I know is they wind me up when they appear on my talk page; I then put myself in the shoes of the other person and try and avoid them if I can. Asgardian is a tricky customer to handle, I'll grant you that. If you're unaware of his arbitration parole, it doesn't matter, because he hasn't breached it here anyway. He has to make edit summaries and discuss reverts, which he appears to be doing. Tell truth, it may have expired. But look, down to the nitty gritty, is this the first contact you have with Asgardian over the issues which led to the block? [2]. I think I'm seeing light at the end of the tunnel here. Hiding T 22:32, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm still not getting it. It looks to me like an editorial dispute. Looking at Ultron, he's removed a ref to Annihilation Conquest #1, is that still needed in his rewrite? He's removed something sourced from an interview at newsarama, again that's allowed under policy, and he has generally tidied up various instances of plot summary. What policy is he breaching here? Looking at Vision he's removed speculation and moved what he feels is too much detail, again not against any specific policy. And looking at Bi-Beast, he removed an unsubstantiated claim, which means exactly the same thing as unsourced, and per policy the onus is not on Asgardian to substantiate it. Per policy, Asgardian can remove it, it says so at WP:V. You're right in that he doesn;t have to, and that to some it is preferable to add a fact tag, but there is no policy which says removing unsourced or unsubstantiated material is wrong. That's a violation of policy. And again, he tweaked and copy-edited. He's allowed to do all of that. And then all I can see happen next is that you post this message on his talk page, [3].

Look, I'm not trying to bust your chops on this, it just looks to me like it could have been handled better. If your dispute with Asgardian is on an editorial level, which it looks to me like it was, then I don't feel you should have blocked Asgardian. He hasn't committed vandalism, which is the reason posted to his talk page, he isn't "persistently" removing "valid material", because the stuff he is doing falls under editorial remit and if he is reacting in a non-constructive manner, you should generally get another admin to wade in. Look, I'm only here because Jc asked me to look into it. I don't feel it was the best block in the world, but these things happen. I recall I made a bit of an idiot of myself with you once a long time ago. I've pretty much pledged not to block Asgardian again after events in April and before. If I feel he needs blocking, my thinking is I'll go post at WP:AN and get a second opinion. Maybe that's a path you need to take. I don't know. It's your call. Looking at your block log, it is mostly ip's and new accounts, so I think this is the first time you've blocked an established user. I'm not going to sit here and say Asgardian is perfect, but I think we all agree he has come a long way since he started. Mind, so have all of us. I don't doubt you were doing what you thought was the right thing to do. All anyone can ask is that we each do our best. Hiding T 08:39, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

I've made an idiot of myself with too many people too many times to remember them all, but I'm fairly sure our paths must have crossed one time or another. Weren't you involved in the whole T-Man saga or do I have you confused with someone else? I think we seem to be agreeing that Asgardian is terrible at communicating and a little too insistent on his preferred version. What I'm looking to prod now is, given you've tweaked Ultron to include material you would prefer in, would you now say you're involved in the article? And would that prevent any further blocks around this issue? I think we're pretty much on the same page. As to the word vandal, the block reason in the template states "continued removal", but the word "removal" links to Wikipedia:Vandalism, so that's why I was saying the reason indicates vandalism. I think if we can agree on some particular points, I think we may be done. Asgardian tends to copy-edit and clean-up articles, and that involves aesthetic considerations and reliance on WP:V and so on. That's allowed, and whilst there are ways of doing this that are better than others, none of them are not allowed. When there's a dispute over what to include, consensus and our policies dictate what we do, with editors discussing. This is where problems with Asgardian start. What we have to try and work out is how to move forwards from that position. My feeling is that one should just be frank, firm, but courteous with Asgardian, something like, "you removed this piece of text which I feel adds to the article and the reader's understanding. I think it should be in the article, as such I have restored it. We shouldn't edit war over this, so the only other way to sort this out is to discuss it. If you have serious issues with the text, let's discuss them. Neither of us owns the article, so if we can't sort this out between us, I think we should involve other people." It's a way forwards, and how Asgardian responds is up to him, but there are rules of engagement on Wikipedia as I have made clear to him. Best, Hiding T 12:14, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

It was published, and, IIUC, did actualy get to comic shops before DC recalled it for pulping and reprinting.

See:

http://search.ebay.ca/All-Star-Batman-10_Collectables_W0QQcatrefZC5QQdfspZ1QQfclZ3QQfromZR7QQfrppZ50QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQnojsprZyQQpfidZ0QQsacatZ1QQsofindtypeZ0QQsofocusZbs (eBay Canada)

http://www.google.ca/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=t&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGIH_enCA277CA277&q=all%2dstar+batman+and+robin+10

http://newsarama.com/comics/090811-ASBR10eBay.html

http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/13260.html

http://wednesdayshaul.com/wordpress/2008/09/08/dcs-pulping-of-comics-continues-with-all-star-batman-robin-10/

http://comixster.wordpress.com/2008/09/10/all-star-batman-and-robin-10-recalled-due-to-cuss-words-in-the-comic/

And so on...

So "as Issue 10 has not yet been published" is not 100% accurate... It came out, DC wanted it back but didn't get'em all, so some have access to it.

- J Greb (talk) 02:10, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Not a biggie... I've got a feeling most LCS played fair by DC. The eBay stuff is the exceptions. IIUC DC has moved the "street date" to next Wednesday, so that may be a fairer note for an edit summary. - J Greb (talk) 02:35, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

"Local Comics Shop(s)"... though "Seller(s)" is probably just as valid. - J Greb (talk) 10:25, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads-up. Perhaps I'm missing something, but so far (since his block), I see a bold edit by him. I see his post on the talk page (which coincided with his edits). I see the partial reversion by you. What would you presume the "next step" would be, if you were neutrally watching this? - jc37 08:22, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

I think Emperor is making some valid points about discussion. For now, I think I'll defer to his experience/wisdom in how you (plural - you and Asgardian, and potentially others) might engage in discussion together. As an aside, one thing I also noticed was that (this time at least) Asgardian made his changes in several edits rather than one overall "big" edit, which was another concern of the past. - jc37 22:20, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

The "aside" I mentioned above, was more a note about previous concerns. (Which is why it was an "aside" : ) - jc37 23:01, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the note too. I agree that his edit summarise are inadequate/inaccurate [4], [5] and [6] but he is discussing the edits on the talk page (which must surely count as an attempt to "solicit discussion"). I'd suggest trying to engage him there - if you can make a good argument for putting material back then that seems the best way to move forward. (Emperor (talk) 14:00, 19 September 2008 (UTC))

Problem is that if he is at least making some effort to communicate and you aren't prepared to then things are obviously not going to get any better. He is rarely in blatant violation of guidelines, so it can get frustrating as it comes down to a matter of opinion, but you have to try and see if you can thrash out your differences with him (we can't do that for you if it really just comes down to your opinion vs his) and if there is still an impasse then we can try and thrash things out on the Comics Project talk page and see if we can't come up with a solution. (Emperor (talk) 20:24, 19 September 2008 (UTC))

Problem is that if you don't even try he can point at things like the talk page there to show he has made an effort and it will look like you are in the wrong, which is going to make it more difficult to sort this all out. (Emperor (talk) 20:41, 19 September 2008 (UTC))

Talk page formatting

Split from the above thread. - jc37 03:30, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

And to clarify, my preference is unification of discussion, deference, and politeness. If you look more closely at my edit history, you may find that actually I don't "keep everyone else's" displayed on my talk page. I mostly leave appreciated "gifts" (like Barnstars and thank yous), since that seems polite. And also multi-person discussions, since the proper unification location would seem to be my talk page in those cases. Else I defer to the other person.

For example, look at your discussion with Hiding. Though I've attempted to add his responses to the discussion, imagine trying to read that without it being unified, especially with the other comments of the other people.

And the history noting that someone commented on my talk page is there in my page history. In most cases, one merely needs to go to that person's talk page (or archive thereof) for the full discussion.

(There's a longer version of my reasons for this, but that's the basics.) - jc37 23:01, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

And now you've removed your comments, which removes context. But it's your talk page, I suppose. - jc37 01:26, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure how the continuity of the page is "difficult to read". Threading/indentation, and timestamps make it all too clear, I would presume?

And there are several ways in which editors discuss/format. (You've apparently not run across "talk page rules" notices yet? I've personally found that most (though not all, by any means) long-time editors prefer unified discussion of one kind or other.)

That said, as I noted above, do as you will, I suppose (per WP:TALK). - jc37 01:39, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

"I'm not sure how the continuity of the page is "difficult to read". Threading/indentation, and timestamps make it all too clear, I would presume? Except that you indent both the original post you're quoting differently from your response to it. This is confusing visually. Timestamps contribute to clarity, but these things can muddle it.

"And there are several ways in which editors discuss/format. (You've apparently not run across "talk page rules" notices yet?" If you mean the Talk Page guideline page, yes, I have. And among the things it says is: "Keep the layout clear: Keep the talk page attractively and clearly laid out. Avoid repetition, muddled writing...". It also says, "Archive — do not delete: When a talk page has become too large or a particular subject is no longer being discussed, do not delete the content — archive it."

"I've personally found that most (though not all, by any means) long-time editors prefer unified discussion of one kind or other.)" You're the first user I've encountered who felt it necessary to quote the entire post instead of just a quoted passage. But hey, to each their own. :-) Nightscream (talk) 03:15, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes, threading is done on user talk page just as posts are threaded on an article talk page, or any other discussion page.

And no, I was speaking of something else. See User talk:Horologium for one such example. Note, of course, that such "rules" are voluntary, and are merely guides to help other editors understand how the user may respond.

Incidentally, at this point, I would typically split this off-topic discussion to its own thread. (And will momentarily, which you are, of course, free to revert.) - jc37 03:30, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Hello, I've been frustrated lately with long-term IP accounts refusing to sign-in (even though they're not required to) at talk: British Isles and talk:Republic of Ireland. Feel free to delete my posting at the IP-in-questions talk-page. GoodDay (talk) 20:15, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

I've removed my whole posting. IPs should be forced to register, after being on Wikipedia for 1-month (IMHO). GoodDay (talk) 20:19, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

I suspect some long-term IPs are banned registered users, getting around their blocks. GoodDay (talk) 20:29, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

To be on the safe side, I'll ignore them (until they sign-in). GoodDay (talk) 20:32, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

The Fraser Institute makes no bones about its conservatism or its opposition to Canada's medicare system. Spoonkymonkey (talk) 02:12, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Here's a link that should clear things up: http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/fraserinstitute/ Spoonkymonkey (talk) 02:24, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

I suggest you read the article. It's from the Canadian Broadcasting, a very reputable source. I would p[refer you do this rather than waste my time. Spoonkymonkey (talk) 03:00, 20 September 2008 (UTC)