There are many aspects of Wikipedia's governance that seem to me to be at best ill-considered and at worst corrupt, and little recognition that some things need to change.

I appreciate that there are many good, talented, and honest people here, but there are far too many who are none of those things, concerned only with the status they acquire by doing whatever is required to climb up some greasy pole or other. I'm out of step with the way things are run here, and at best grudgingly tolerated by the children who run this site. I see that as a good thing, although I appreciate that there are others who see it as an excuse to look for any reason to block me, as my log amply demonstrates.

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This is a note to let the main editors of The Green Child know that the article will be appearing as today's featured article on January 9, 2012. You can view the TFA blurb at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/January 9, 2012. If you prefer that the article appear as TFA on a different date, or not at all, please ask featured article director Raul654 (talk · contribs) or his delegate Dabomb87 (talk · contribs), or start a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Today's featured article/requests. If the previous blurb needs tweaking, you might change it—following the instructions at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests/instructions. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. The blurb as it stands now is below:

The Green Child is the only completed novel by the English anarchist poet and critic Herbert Read. Written in 1934 and first published by Heinemann in 1935, the story is based on the 12th-century legend of two green children who mysteriously appeared in the English village of Woolpit, speaking an apparently unknown language. Read described the story in his English Prose Style, published in 1931, as "the norm to which all types of fantasy should conform". Each of the novel's three parts ends with the apparent death of the story's protagonist, President Olivero, dictator of the fictional South American Republic of Roncador. In each case Olivero's death is an allegory for his translation to a "more profound level of existence", reflecting the book's overall theme of a search for the meaning of life. Read's interest in psychoanalytic theory is evident throughout the novel, which is constructed as a "philosophic myth ... in the tradition of Plato". The story contains many autobiographical elements, and the character of Olivero owes much to Read's experiences as an officer in the British Army during the First World War. The novel was positively received, although some commentators have considered it to be "inscrutable", and one has suggested that it has been so differently and vaguely interpreted by those who have given it serious study that it may lack the form and content to justify the praise it has received. (more...)

UcuchaBot (talk) 23:01, 7 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Mal, are condolences or congratulations in order? PumpkinSky talk 23:06, 7 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Condolences. Definitely. I think I still have it watchlisted... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ealdgyth (talk • contribs)

Condolences is what I expected. PumpkinSky talk 23:46, 7 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, definitely condolences. I'll watchlist. Dana boomer (talk) 15:39, 8 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm ambivalent really. On one hand the article will almost certainly be trashed, but on the other it's a book I love, so if it introduces it to others ... Malleus Fatuorum 00:14, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It has achieved that positive aspect. I had never heard of the book, although the author's name rings a bell. I will be seeking it, although Bury's library system being what it is means that I may have to haunt the likes of abebooks.I have no intention of trashing! - Sitush (talk) 00:33, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Congrats, Malleus. It's a great article on a great book. Sitush, the book is really worth it, though chances are you have to order it. Drmies (talk) 02:58, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'd never heard of the author or the book until today - a crying shame, so well done on educating me. I'll definitely be investing in a copy, Amazon.co.uk has some cheap second-hand copies luckily! GiantSnowman 14:11, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It was pointed out to me earlier today that during the day the book rose from #1,004,576 in Amazon's (US) bestsellers list to end at #15,962; the figures for Amazon's UK site were #253,945 to #6,447 by the end of the day, which I think is quite extraordinary. Malleus Fatuorum 00:35, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Wow! LadyofShalott 00:37, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Am I being out of line here? I really hate the "its an interview so no matter who published it, it must be reliable" line. But if you think I should pass the article, I'll bow to you and Niki's expertise. (And quit reviewing any pop culture articles .. ) Ealdgyth - Talk 02:39, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I wouldn't pass it and I'm unconvinced by sources like Kidzworld, seems a bit like relying on The Children's Encyclopedia to me, a bit of a joke. The reliability of the interview has to be linked to the reliability of the source that's publishing it; I'm also unhappy about using Amazon.com, just seems like a not very well hidden advert. By and large though the sourcing for pop culture articles is pretty marginal. Malleus Fatuorum 03:10, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

For what it's worth, E, I think you should do as you think best and not give a damn what I say about it. After all, isn't the point of GA to have individual and inconsistent reviewers making the decision ;-)? Seriously, though, your choice, and sorry for getting involved in that mess. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:33, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

(talk page stalker) I'm not a fan of amazon as a source or Kidzworld. --Guerillero | My Talk 03:58, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Just seen that SandyG has resigned as FA delegate, which ought to put a few cats among a few pigeons. Malleus Fatuorum 03:12, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Malleus. I hope RL is going fine for you. Hey the copy-editors you suggested me did an amazing job on "Halo". Thanks a zillion times. Lol. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 06:06, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Glad to hear it. They're good and generous people, something Wikipedia needs a lot more of. Malleus Fatuorum 06:11, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That's true Malleus and they are very kind. I really miss you. Please don't mind me asking but won't you ever come back? I mean come back to edit articles, etc? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 06:37, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That's out of my hands. Malleus Fatuorum 06:41, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, what do you mean? Have you been blocked forever? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 06:46, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Not yet, but I point blank refuse to sign up to the Wikipedia behaviour modification programme, so it's pretty much inevitable. This place reminds me more and more of Clockwork Orange. Malleus Fatuorum 06:51, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Badness is of the self, the one, the you or me on our oddy knockies, and that self is made by old Bog or God and is his great pride and radosty. But the not-self cannot have the bad, meaning they of the government and the judges and the schools cannot allow the bad because they cannot allow the self. And is not our modern history, my brothers, the story of brave malenky selves fighting these big machines?" Hey Jivesh, Clockwork Orange is a great example of something not (quite) in any "well-known language". Nikkimaria (talk) 02:24, 10 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, never heard of that film. Lol. Malleus, all I have to say is that remember if one day you come back, there are many people including me here who will receive you with open arms. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 07:01, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't left, I'm simply saying that Wikipedia has to change, not me. Malleus Fatuorum 07:09, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I second that. Sometimes, I feel as if we edit like robots. Lol. Rules, rules and rules. We should learn to ignore them at times. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 07:16, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

UK or US edition? Fifelfoo (talk) 07:13, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, never heard of that film. No offense intended Jivesh, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around this. Makes me feel old.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 17:33, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Actually,, I am only 18. And I live in a country where we do not watch a lot of films. In fact, I neither speak English nor French or any well-known language. Lol. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 17:40, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What is your native language Jivesh? BTW, as I was walking around my local Asda supermarket there was a radio announcement that Beyoncé's baby was born today. Amazing! Malleus Fatuorum 17:44, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The baby girl saw the light the day before yesterday, the date (January 7) Elvis Presley died. I speak Creole language. I live in Mauritius. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 17:50, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Elvis Presley died on August 16. My birthday, different year. He was born January 8. Lara 21:06, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That's Asda for you then, everything out of date. :lol: Is there a Creole Wikipedia? Malleus Fatuorum 17:55, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What is Asda? Hmm, no creole wiki. Lol. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 18:01, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Asda is part of Walmart, the world's largest retailer. Malleus Fatuorum 18:05, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ahh okay. Malleus. Please please please take a quick look at "Halo" and bless me with your thoughts. Lol. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 18:07, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Jivesh, if it was almost anyone else I'd say no, but as it's you ... maybe later, but no promises. Malleus Fatuorum 18:14, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Aww, this is so generous and kind of you. Thanks. May God bless you. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 18:18, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

If someone says name at least one popular person who can speak Creole, I would name Fats Domino and Jivesh :) ♫GoP♫_T^C_{N 16:12, 10 January 2012 (UTC)}[reply]

That's dissapointing Malleus; I had you down more as a discerning Waitrose sort of person. Giacomo Returned 18:10, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Price is king. Besides, my local Asda is open 24 hours a day, so it's just too convenient. Shopping in the middle of the night is so less stressful than during the day. Malleus Fatuorum 18:14, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Malleus, I know this is a worrying time for you, but (man-to-man) there are other things to do in the middle of the night - or even a good book for example. Giacomo Returned 18:25, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The real problem is the sunlight though, it burns one's skin so. Malleus Fatuorum 18:31, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I can understand that; my late, great aunt has the same problem. She too prefers to sleep through the hours of daylight. Giacomo Returned 18:34, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There's a Waitrose on Sinderland Road, just outside Altrincham. I shop there occasionally, the food is superb, and not as expensive as you'd think. I reckon if I spent £30 in Sainsbury I'd spend a couple of quid more in Waitrose. Parrot of Doom 19:26, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

If you like Waitrose, you should try Booths at MediaCity. Not huge, but nice stuff. Mr Stephen (talk) 22:01, 10 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Driving the Jeep to Altrincham would add quite a bit to the price. And as for the Jag, well ... Malleus Fatuorum 19:35, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I know for me, taking the Aston all the way to Whole Foods is just too much expense, so Walmart it usually is! Lara 21:09, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I hardly ever take the Aston out, but hopefully come the summer the MGB will get another outing. Malleus Fatuorum 21:17, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

In the course of the ongoing case, the Arbitration Committee has decided to collect all relevant information regarding your block log and, as such, has created a table of all your blocks, which can be found here. You are welcome to comment, if you wish. Salvio ^{Let's talk about it!} 15:44, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Goodness, isn't that clever; it must have taken someone ages to do that, however, just think how much more profitably they could have been spending their time. I had no idea that we were both stalked by the same little admins; I do have to point out though, that mine is bigger than yours. I won't comment there though because they have trained Salvy to revert me. Giacomo Returned 17:22, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Just like RfA, it's a good way to flush out all your enemies from the long grass. Malleus Fatuorum 17:27, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Tnuc Gnikcuf was an Icelandic warlord of the 12th century. He annexed several of the southern kingdoms including the hundred of Kuntland and was said to have waged a war against the Inuits.

I'm writing an article, wanna help?♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:34, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not really in a frame of mind to help anyone with anything I'm afraid, too busy pulling daggers out of my back. Another time perhaps. Malleus Fatuorum 17:37, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I was a bit slow there to recognise "Kuntland". Duh! Malleus Fatuorum 18:18, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am assuming you read the guys name, both forwards and backwards? Chaosdruid (talk) 19:03, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm even slower than I thought! Malleus Fatuorum 19:06, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hehe, the funny thing though is that the name does have something medeival Norse about it LOL. I googled it, there is a poker player who uses that name! ♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:17, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Malleus, you really must be tired to have missed that one! I've always wondered whether King Cnut was possibly an error in transcription ... Pesky (talk …stalk!) 19:25, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Just waking up, it's early in the night for me yet. Malleus Fatuorum 19:28, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

King Cnut LOL.♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:46, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Got to hold my hand up; I missed that one too - even googled it, saw a few poker players and it still did not dawn, Well done Dr. Blofeld - respect! Giacomo Returned 21:21, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

LOL.♦ Dr. Blofeld 22:29, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

My favorite line on this topic is "King Cnut, the FCUK of the eleventh century..." Geometry guy 22:06, 10 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

David Mitchell? 28bytes (talk) 22:08, 10 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I think you are right - one of his soapboxes perhaps? I admire his work, anyway! Geometry guy 22:31, 10 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

He's brilliant. I love those soapboxes. 28bytes (talk) 22:48, 10 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Of course he is brilliant inherited notability on my part, same college etc ;) But despite being in the right place, I don't think it was Mitchell who noticed the acronymic problem with the Cambridge University Netball Team Supporters. - Sitush (talk) 00:15, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

His schooling was evidently a more significant influence: he went to the same independent school as Thom Yorke and Radiohead. Geometry guy 01:27, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

But Thom Yorke ended up at Oxford, I think? Pah! Actually, I thought that one of Radiohead was at my college, but perhaps it was one of Coldplay. Not being much of a listener of music - if indeed "music" is the correct word - such things tend to pass me by. Honestly, if you try to keep track of the doings of these Oxbridge bods, and their interconnections, then you'll rapidly turn yourself into a roll of Sellotape as at midnight on Christmas Eve. I was the token flat-cap, state school Northerner, and Sam treated me as such. I do get a card every year from Guy Black but would much prefer it if he actually influenced govt policy in a way that might help the plebs. As with me, Maurice Cowling called him a "Tory anarchist"; unlike me, he has dropped the anarchist & highlighted the Tory bit. Anyway, that's enough for now - one should not name-drop, as HMQ said to me only recently. <g> - Sitush (talk) 01:55, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm having a bit of a spat about the usage of the "O.S.B" initials in various monastic biographies (see Adam of Eynsham) - as well as using it in the body of the article such as "the monastic historian, David Knowles, O.S.B"... per our precedent with Muhammed, I've always omitted such initials - they add nothing to the article I don't think, but I've been reverted a couple of times lately and would like someone else's opinion. Adam's article is the last spot but it's happened a couple of times elsewhere. No monk in the 11th or 12th century would have used such initials - and I think they are anachronistic - nor do I think we should use the OSB initials whenever a monk is mentioned. TPS input welcomed! (crossposted from John's talk page ...) Ealdgyth - Talk 18:44, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You can bug me any time you like Ealdgyth. No OSB, it makes no sense. Is there a discussion anywhere that I can disrupt by calling your adversaries "fucking cunts"? Malleus Fatuorum 18:51, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

LOL.. no, no discussion, I just get rereverted. Let's see what input John has also... and any TPSs. Ealdgyth - Talk 18:55, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

(Pops out of lurking for a moment...) It's not a convention I'm seen much of in my reading, I'll admit, and a quick Google pull doesn't suggest its that popular elsewhere either... Hchc2009 (talk) 19:23, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've had a run-in with that editor, he seems to consider me a bigot.Talk:Elizabeth Tyldesley I'm sure MF will remember him.J3Mrs (talk) 19:54, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You assume too much J3Mrs. I've always been bad at remembering people's names in real life, never mind here, where editors can change their names at will. Malleus Fatuorum 20:03, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, Daniel the Monk, I do remember him now. Malleus Fatuorum 20:06, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well I remember him, he reported this little bigot to the naughty board, you dropped by on your white charger only to be mistaken for an admin.J3Mrs (talk) 20:09, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's all coming back to me now. Malleus Fatuorum 20:11, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

And as a matter of interest, what would you least like to be called, a bigot or a cunt? Not that I've ever heard anyone ever call a woman a cunt. Which is strange given that it's pretty much OK to call anyone a dick here in WikiWorld. Malleus Fatuorum 20:16, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have been called a cunt by a child of ten, and I managed to survive that the accompanying bite, but I am most certainly not a bigot.J3Mrs (talk) 20:24, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I stand corrected then. Were you teaching in the Village of the Damned? Malleus Fatuorum 20:38, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Close, what really upset me was the series of hepatitis injections my GP considered necessary after he'd given me a tetanus booster and had a good laugh. It was just a word in a string of obscenities and believe it or not I really loved that job.J3Mrs (talk) 20:41, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Tetanus boosters tend to be pretty painful in my experience. Which reminds me that a few years ago I had to travel to Pakistan on business. The first time I didn't think too much about it, but before I went the second time I went to my GP for advice. I couldn't believe the number of pills that had to be taken before and after the trip, and there were so many injections that we had to alternate between arms. Malleus Fatuorum 20:54, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'd be curious to see how the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography handles the initials. Nev1 (talk) 20:13, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Eynsham, Adam of (b. c.1155, d. in or after 1233), abbot of Eynsham and hagiographer, came from a middle-class Oxford family, and became a monk and then in due course first prior, and then abbot, of the Benedictine monastery at Eynsham. His father, Edmund, was a doctor who owned properties in Oxford (probably in the Osney district), but went to the Holy Land and died there c.1187. One of Adam's brothers, William of Oxford, is mentioned as the abbot's brother in Eynsham charters, and a younger brother, also called Edmund, had studied at Oxford and in 1196 experienced a vision of the next world. Adam wrote an account of this, The Vision of the Monk of Eynsham, which survives in several manuscripts and printed editions....." for Adam and "Evesham, Dominic of (d. in or before 1150), Benedictine monk and hagiographer, was perhaps born of English parents, as some slight linguistic evidence suggests. He seems to have become a monk at the Benedictine abbey of Evesham ..." for Dominic of Evesham. For that matter - "Knowles, Michael Clive [name in religion David] (1896–1974), Benedictine monk and historian of monasticism, was born at Eastfield, Studley, in Warwickshire, on 29 September 1896, the only surviving ..." is for David Knowles (scholar) Ealdgyth - Talk 20:15, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think those are useful examples and I'd like to follow their practice. Both ODNB entries mention the order they were members of, would this be worth including in our own articles as more than a category? Nev1 (talk) 20:31, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ditch the OSB. (and let the swapped-around-first-two-letters version complain?) Pesky (talk …stalk!) 20:32, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

(ec) It's kinda anachronistic though - there was only one monastic order basically at the time - it's like calling someone from 700 a "Roman Catholic" - they were just "Catholic" or even better "Christian". The Benedictines really only "organized" into an "order" in response to the formation of other orders. Ealdgyth - Talk 20:34, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

(ec) Hmm that's a fair point. Perhaps the ONDB is specifying which order because readers may not be aware there was only really one at the time. Nev1 (talk) 20:43, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I would tend to say no OSBs etc till 1550-1600 - I think S.J. is ok for Elizabethan Jesuits for example. I think you could finess Knowles with "Dom David Knowles" and some link on Dom - I think that was his correct title. Johnbod (talk) 01:33, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

John (not you Johnbod, but plain John) brought the subject up at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Christianity - feel free to weigh in. Ealdgyth - Talk 01:38, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Malleus, if you're in the mood, could you re-visit WP:Featured article candidates/Maniac Mansion/archive1? You opposed on prose a few weeks ago, but it looks like some work has been done to address that. Ucucha (talk) 00:50, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Only fair I suppose. Malleus Fatuorum 00:54, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've revisited and made a few further comments at the FAC. Basically I don't think it's improved much, so my oppose still stands. Malleus Fatuorum 01:29, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Ucucha (talk) 01:36, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

FYI- I made some edits per your comments, but I had some follow up questions. Your input would be appreciated. Thanks. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 15:42, 19 January 2012 (UTC))[reply]

Thanks for reading over my application essay. Everything submitted and paid for today. I'll let you know when I get a letter, and I'll try not to type in all CAPS if it's an acceptance letter! Lara 04:24, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Lara,

You give us hope.

Good luck!

 Kiefer.Wolfowitz 23:31, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Malleus, tell me if I did go over the wall here. Talk:Azteca horse. Also the talk page of the individual in question. I wouldn't mind finding a way out of this microdrama, though my views are unchanged. Your thoughts? Montanabw^(talk) 05:11, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Eric Corbett. You have new messages at Montanabw's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

	The Surreal Barnstar
	I'm just amassed at your dedication to the project, even after been lynched again and again by the "civility patrol" and the ArbCom case related to edit. It would be a shame to the project if we lose your services. Secret account 07:10, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

		The Beyoncé Knowles WikiProject Thanks You
		I, on behalf on the entire WikiProject, thank you wholeheartedly for copy-editing "Single Ladies (Put a Ring on It)" and "Halo (Beyoncé Knowles song)". Your edits helped the articles more than you can think of. Thank you, thank you, thank you. No matter how many times I write this, it will not be enough. :D May God bless you. You are a wiki-angle (at least to me). Jivesh1205 (Talk) 04:46, 12 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hey about the sentence, lol... It was not me who did that. My sentence was actually: Police dogs eventually catch the man and attack him savagely. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 04:46, 12 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, much better. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 05:45, 12 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You are great. All the praise in the world will be insufficient to compliment your pair of eyes. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 17:56, 12 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The FAC seems to be going a lot smoother than your last one: two supports already, not bad. Malleus Fatuorum 18:45, 12 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I hope this continues to run smoothly. Your touch added to an article = Magic. :D Jivesh1205 (Talk) 18:47, 12 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'd be cautiously optimistic in your shoes Jivesh. As for myself, well, it's quite clear that Wikipedia doesn't deserve me. ;-) Malleus Fatuorum 18:50, 12 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have complete faith in you. Not quite but crystal clear. I think you are nevertheless the person who can bring a change here. You have to stay. You are like the one bringing life here. Lol. Otherwise, the place seems to be like a robotized place. I hope you are getting what I mean. Excuse my horrible English. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 18:55, 12 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I wish you all the best with the FAC; "wiki-angle" seems an apt description of MF's distinctive contributions :) Geometry guy 00:24, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much. Why do I feel that we have talked in the past? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 04:39, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Malleus, I just added this sentence to the lead: "Placed on the I Am.. disc of the record, it shows the one Knowles' is behind the make-up and the celebrity trappings." Is it good? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 04:49, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Doesn't quite work for me, but see what you think of my version. Malleus Fatuorum 05:12, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Need I say it's perfect? :D But Malleus, aren't we supposed to write it this way: "behind-the-scenes"? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 05:15, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Some might say so, but they'd be wrong; the purpose of hyphens is to resolve ambiguity in compound adjectives, and there is none here. BTW, "disc of the record" makes no sense whatsoever. Malleus Fatuorum 05:19, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. I will remove it. Malleus, thanks very much for sparing some time to look at "Halo". I mean, I know what you told me the last time. Nevertheless, you checked it. Malleus, don't you love a single song of Beyonce? Yesterday, a plane was name after her. :D Jivesh1205 (Talk) 05:23, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Jivesh, at the risk of hurting your feelings, hers is a style of singing I simply can't listen to without wanting to kick the cat. (I don't have a cat, so no animals were damaged in the production of this post.) I'm only helping because of your obvious passion for your subject. Malleus Fatuorum 05:30, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Your honesty is what I appreciate the most in you. And also the fact that you are helping me despite not loving the song as in the past I have had copy-editors not taking Beyonce articles because they do not like her music. Lol. Whenever you are sad or you want to laugh, visit my gifs gallery. To tempt you, let me show you this one. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 05:37, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There is an article I saw and edited a bit that needs improving. I wish and hope, if your time allows, that you would be willing to demonstrate some improvements to it. I hope you receive this request well, and apologize if for any reason you do not. Respectfully - My76Strat (talk) 05:46, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Are you emulating Dr. Manhattan in your sense of timing?

Remember that we experience directly the present, and must rely on memory for our access to the past. Administrative precogs apparently have prescience, which allows them to predict the future behavior of individuals; human psychologists claiming such competence have been declared unethical by Paul Meehl and Robyn Dawes.

 Kiefer.Wolfowitz 16:11, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am astonished that after all your comments at the current ArcCom case you would come here and ask me for anything. Malleus Fatuorum 18:43, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I wonder if he's talking about this article??? — Ched :  ?  19:23, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't care what article he's talking about, the answer is still the same. Malleus Fatuorum 19:51, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I guess it just struck me as ... I don't know; ironic?

• anyway, I have a question. Have you ever seen an article on an idiom taken to a GA quality level? The one that comes to mind for me was the Damn with faint praise article. I'd like to see more there, but I'm not sure there would be enough sources to really expand it very much. I'd be interested in your viewpoint if you'd care to say. — Ched :  ?  20:10, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• The closest I'm aware of is the metaphor of the boiling frog. As to whether or not an article like damn with faint praise could become a GA I think it would be all down to the sources available. But there's no reason in principle why it couldn't. It might even be interesting to develop a generic structure for such articles. Malleus Fatuorum 20:53, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thought provoking on multiple levels. Thank you. — Ched :  ?  21:10, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No worries is also a GA. Ucucha (talk) 21:32, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That's a nice little article. It might be interesting to try and get an idiom article up to GA. If I'm still around in a couple of weeks that is. Malleus Fatuorum 21:46, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Actually I've just noticed that Have a nice day is also a GA. Malleus Fatuorum 21:50, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Let us praise famous men

Just be wary if anyone offers you anything to drink. We need a gadfly around this place from time to time. Or, to quote Seneca from the Demetrius the Cynic article

• "[Malleus], who seems to have been placed by nature in our times that he might prove that we could neither corrupt him nor be corrected by him; a man of consummate wisdom, though he himself disclaimed it, constant to the principles which he professed, of an eloquence worthy to deal with the mightiest subjects, scorning mere prettinesses and verbal niceties, but expressing with infinite spirit, the ideas which inspired it. I doubt not that he was endowed by divine providence with so pure a life and such power of speech in order that our age might neither be without a model nor a reproach." — Ched :  ?  22:12, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  That's a lovely quotation, but you do me too much credit. Malleus Fatuorum 22:20, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

While we are men, we cannot help, to a great extent, being fans of Malleus, for the great Master does but analyze the thoughts, feelings, views, and opinions of human kind. He has told us the meaning of our own words and ideas, before the RfA Deform was born. In many subject-matters, to think correctly, is to think like Malleus; and we are his disciples whether we will or no, though we may not know it."

— after Cardinal John Henry Newman's Idea of the University

 Kiefer.Wolfowitz 23:29, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• That made me laugh. Kiefer, you are way too educated and intelligent for own good. A bit like me really I suppose. Malleus Fatuorum 23:39, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Canst thou make him afraid as a grasshopper? the glory of his nostrils is terrible.
He paweth in the valley, and rejoiceth in his strength: he goeth on to meet the armed men.
He mocketh at fear, and is not affrighted; neither turneth he back from the sword.
The quiver rattleth against him, the glittering spear and the shield.
He swalloweth the ground with fierceness and rage: neither believeth he that it is the sound of the trumpet.
He saith among the trumpets, Ha, ha; and he smelleth the battle afar off, the thunder of the captains, and the shouting. King James Bible, Job 39 Pesky (talk …stalk!) 06:15, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy My brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay My vengeance upon you."

— Ezekiel 25:17

• The Gate of Paradise versus text search for "Turn your other cheek". Fifelfoo (talk) 01:20, 15 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The title of this subsection reminds me of the Pantheon in Paris and its AUX GRANDS HOMMES LA PATRIE RECONNAISSANTE inscription ("For/To the great men, the grateful fatherland"). Some outdated ideas going on there, perhaps... Geometry guy 01:48, 15 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I found this while looking for something else (honest!), middle column, about two thirds of the way down, beginning "A correspondent who may be relied on...". I had a quick look but couldn't see any reference to it at Wife selling (English custom), so I thought I'd pass it on, in case it was useful. No worries if not! I'll post this to the article talk page too. Cheers. Nortonius (talk) 18:25, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

When I hit the link, it took me to the start of the book and the find function didn't want to behave itself. But I found the section in question on page 15.---Balloonman ^{Poppa Balloon} 18:32, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, that's odd, it worked when I previewed the above prior to saving - I can only apologise, but yes, now you mention it, page 15! Cheers. Nortonius (talk) 18:35, 13 January 2012 (UTC) p.s. I've fixed the above link to Google Books so it should now point straight to page 15, hope that helps. p.p.s. Scroll up to page 13 for clear reference to a publication date for this on 11 January 1787. The intervening page 14 is missing from the preview - or, it is for me at any rate![reply]

Ask Michael Henchard if he has a spare wife or two to sell?♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:58, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

But who's your favourite Joshua Jopp, putting together a glorious Wikipedia skimmington ride, that well known "public procession designed to mock and humiliate people"? Martinevans123 (talk) 23:30, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Just wanted to let you know that this is a thing now. --Moni3 (talk) 22:15, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Only by seeing themselves for what they are—older and wiser, superior to their offspring—can parents begin to do the job right." Amen to that. Now, about all these kiddie admins ... Malleus Fatuorum 22:18, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You've asked me several times why I edit here. Unfortunately my reasons, whatever they were, are being overtaken by reasons why I don't feel like it, since I realised I'm not interested in anything vital I've hardly written anything. I really don't care for the atmosphere where political correctness rules. In no particular order, I don't subscribe to feminism, re-writing history with a 21st century perspective or in 19th century language, pov pushing, religious zealotry, trivia-mongery, petty vandalism, busybodying, trolling, attention-seeking, nit-picking, hypocrisy and demands for professionalism, whatever that is. And then I started reading the arbcom stuff and realised there are editors who visit your page that I'd cross the road to avoid. I expect 99.9% users (unscientific estimate) have no idea what goes on behind the scenes and that it's driven not only by the movers and shakers jockeying for position, but by the easily upset encouraged by rewards for being upset. When I'm annoyed the very last thing I'd need is somebody on the internet telling me to "calm down dear" (how I loathe that ad) especially when I'm not wrong and especially when I am old enough to be their grandmother. And where you're concerned you know a lot of it is jealousy, they'd kill for a female fan club. Apart from that life's ok. Take careJ3Mrs (talk) 22:57, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think a lot us are beginning to wonder whether the game's really worth the candle. Wikipedia is in a death-spiral, but I'm not sure the powers that be either recognise that or know what to do about it. As for the female fan club, well, given my reputation for blunt speaking I have to say it's rather astonished me. Having said that, my wife is no slouch when it comes to telling me what she really thinks about something. :-) It makes me wonder as well whether this supposed "13% female editors" is accurate, as my experience is that I come across way more female editors than that at FA/GA. Malleus Fatuorum 23:08, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

(ec) Female fan club? (outrage) I've never ever been part of a "fan club".. I'm offended! (well, not really, but ... it sounded like something I should do or be, right?). I am off to a nice fancy dinner with my spouse to celebrate my birthday. It's a whopping 19 degrees F here (-7 to you Brits). With a wind chill of 6 (-14). And snowing. But nothing will deprive me of my birthday steak and wine! So enjoy! Ealdgyth - Talk 23:10, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

More power to your wife, behind every good man is an even better woman, that's what I tell my husband and one day he'll believe me.J3Mrs (talk) 23:26, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ealdgyth, my only experience of American steaks is a gigantic slab of meat that no European could reasonably be expected to eat. On our skiing trip to California we were repeatedly warned that the portions might be more that we bargained for, and they were invariably right. Anyway, enjoy your meal ... how old are you now? :lol: Actually it's my birthday next week, and my wife's promised to take me out for a meal as well, probably a Chinese, as I like to show off my dexterity with chop sticks. Malleus Fatuorum 00:57, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

In another attempt to spike this idea that I'm a misogynist, my wife and I were at university together. She decided to go on to do a PhD whereas I went on to try and earn some money. I knew her supervisor from university, and we met up occasionally at parties and other social gatherings. One time he asked me how I'd feel if my wife had a PhD but I didn't. I was absolutely gobsmacked. I'll spare your blushes by "bowlderising" my reply: "I'd be absolutely delighted old boy". Malleus Fatuorum 23:49, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Feminism is just the idea that women and men should be treated equally. The push to acknowledge there are fewer women here than men and the women here should be treated differently, or Wikipedia should be recruiting someone over someone else is not feminism. I don't quite know what it is, but I'm here and I've been here for more than 5 years doing whatever it is I do. I never thought of myself as different than other editors, deserving of something other, or needing to be spoken to in a certain way. Just as plainly as possible will do fine. --Moni3 (talk) 23:57, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't blush these days, My husband has the degrees, I have none, but I have more ............je ne sais quoi.J3Mrs (talk) 00:01, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure it's that's simple Moni. Obviously women and men should be given equal opportunities in every area of life, and equal pay, but there are definitely things I would never say to a woman that I would say to a man. I would never, for instance, call a woman a cunt. Even if she was. Malleus Fatuorum 00:42, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

@Moni, my reference to feminism didn't refer to wikipedia's treatment more about an article I'd like to write but won't because I hate the women's history label.J3Mrs (talk) 00:06, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ok. I'm not sure what all that means--I'm sure you would have to spend a half hour or so explaining its significance, but only if you want me to get it. If you don't and would rather go drinking, I'd enjoy that more. I'm about to do something very much like it. --Moni3 (talk) 00:11, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've had a glass or two of red wine already and a piece of chocolate, enjoy your drink :-)J3Mrs (talk) 00:15, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've opened a bottle of red plonk as well, so cheers! Malleus Fatuorum 00:46, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"I like to show off with chop sticks" - you play the joanna also? Is there no end to your talents? FWIW, I am not convinced about the 13% figure either but, hey, I just keep plodding along and really have no great interest in whether an editor is male, female or undecided. We all do what we do, and good luck to us. I am way, way behind most of your regular contributors here in terms of experience, ability and, well, probably anything else that is logically a positive and that you would care to name. But I plough a fairly lonely furrow from a Western point of view and because of that probably get away with things that others might not. I realise that it may not be your scene but I attended the Manchester wikimeet in December (first time) & those at my end of the group were singing your praises and hoping that you might one day show your face there. I was wamblecropt getting off the tram but a selection of rather nice beers sorted that one out. - Sitush (talk) 01:10, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I hadn't realised there was beer involved at these wikimeets, that puts an entirely different perspective on it. Malleus Fatuorum 01:15, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

My own unscientific survey informs me that half of the editors I encounter at FA/GA are female, so what are we to conclude from that? And my experience with the Wikipedia:WikiProject AP Biology 2011 tells me that most of the successful students were female. Malleus Fatuorum 01:23, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) Well, there was in December and I have no reason to believe that was unusual. Mind you, after a pint of Throatwaggler, another of Bath Ales' Festivity, something by Goose Eye Brewery and a double-chocolate stout to finish, well, I can vaguely recall that I did actually get some useful input from others who were there and I had an opportunity to vent in the classic "what happens on tour, stays on tour" manner. It may have been Throatwobbler, btw. Hic. And, bearing in mind my impecunious state, that lot cost under a tenner and so was very little more than 4 pints of Joseph Holt. Which is an article in need of attention when I can find the time. - Sitush (talk) 01:26, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Joseph Holt's Diamond lager is very good value for money. Malleus Fatuorum 01:29, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

[ec] Sitush, you're too old for drinking feasts. Don't make me tell your brother. Re: the previous point, when Mrs. Drmies finishes her Master's she'll make almost as much as I do with my Ph.D., and she's teaching seventh grade. I wish she could get a Ph.D., and another one, and make me a ton of money. She can be twenty times as educated as me, but she still can't make shrimp and grits like I can, or put our youngest to sleep. Then again, I can't carry a child through the zoo as long as she can--and I certainly can't carry one to full term. Drmies (talk) 01:34, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) Never too old, Prof - I played rugby, remember! Malleus, yes, indeed, I believe that Diamond is the beer of choice for Mancunian cat-piss lovers :) I am on their Two Hoots at the moment - a Golden Ale, 12 bottles at a time, on a tab behind the bar, for £15. You can do the arithmetic. - Sitush (talk) 01:39, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think we should start a movement to have Joseph Holt sanctified. Malleus Fatuorum 01:44, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It was a pretty good meetup in Manchester - and I was still stable enough at the end of it to find my train back to Liverpool. And yes, Malleus, it would be great if you came along one time - there'd be a few people happy to shove beer in front of you! -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 01:46, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Or perhaps glass in my face. Malleus Fatuorum 01:50, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Nah, we don't let people like that come -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 01:53, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Let me know when the next one is, and I'll definitely think about it. Malleus Fatuorum 01:56, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Feb 25 - http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Manchester_11 -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 01:57, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ooh, ooh. I didn't realise that list had started already. + 1. And I will buy MF a beer. - Sitush (talk) 02:03, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I'm up for that absent unforeseen circumstances between then and now. Malleus Fatuorum 02:10, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 02:12, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) It would be nice to meet other local editors such as PoD, Nev1, and J3Mrs as well. Part of the problem here is that administrators treat us as children, with silly blocks aka "time in the naughty corner". I am no child. Malleus Fatuorum 02:25, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

And what's wrong with a gigantic slab of meat for dinner? ;-) Edit wiki for your own reasons, not to please or impress anyone else. The wiki politics will do in anyone. We all can list pages of reasons of problems with wiki. I'm surprised so many stay around as it is. PumpkinSky talk 02:17, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

When I need your advice I'll ask for it. In the meantime don't hold your breath. Malleus Fatuorum 02:25, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

But I am holding my breath.PumpkinSky talk 02:32, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Re: 02:10 - I'll start saving up <g> - Sitush (talk) 02:30, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Forgive me for the wrong link above - Joseph_Holt's_Brewery is the article. In my mind, and as they say on the terraces, "there;s only only one Joseph Holt". But there should be a Joseph Holt (hic) as I am pretty sure that the info is out there. There was also a son - Edward? - who had some significant role in the Thirlmere - Manchester water doings. - Sitush (talk) 02:44, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm getting a bit worried about this now. Will I have to get a haircut, buy some new trendy clothes? Malleus Fatuorum 02:47, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't, and I very much doubt that what I wore was trendy. - Sitush (talk) 03:04, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

MF I am confused that you and others feel a need to defend that you are not a misogynist. I simply can not find prose where it was alleged that you are. I have twice inquired to this regard and not been directed to or shown the supporting diff. My larger concern is that I have used the term myself, but did not and do not intend that it should label you or be ascribed to you in any fashion. I'd sooner vacate my assertion, than to be associated as one who believes that you are. I have 1 or 2 diffs that qualify as evidence that you are not, which are in reserve for use to refute such a direct allegation if ever I find the darn thing. I don't mean to astound you in anyway and understand your earlier statement. (I think) I will immediately respect your directions if you should dispatch me from this page. In the absence of such counsel, while I don't exactly feel welcome, I do feel it is an open option for communicating. Thank you for vesting your time to these regards. My76Strat (talk) 03:34, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Then try reading all of the "evidence". If I was in any way a misogynist I doubt that there would be so many female editors in my corner. Malleus Fatuorum 03:45, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That's fine. I agree that you are not a misogynist. When I find the assertion that you are, I will disagree there. Again, thank you. My76Strat (talk) 03:56, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand where this crap comes from. Why was I accused of being a misogynist? All the evidence appears to show the opposite. Malleus Fatuorum 04:10, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm darned (ahem) sure that far more than 13% of editors are female. On the net, loads of females refuse to declare their gender, or actively hide it by stating they are male, or passively hid it by portraying a pseudo-male persona. ^{[citation needed]} And we have a circularly self-perpetuating myth (as opposed to a triangularly sp one, f'rinstance. Sorry ... it's the morphine ... ;P) Editors are programmed to believe that most other editors are young and male; in response, that's what they assume about other editors. Even about the old crones among us! I have had people on IRC absolutely gobsmacked to discover I have school aged grandchildren - apparently I "come across" as a young male! Heh! Just take a look around WP:EQUINE - squillions of females lurking in there, they just don't necessarily say so. And, of course, there's the point that females who prefer not to let the world know their gender are somewhat less likely to fill in surveys where that question is asked; simple sampling error where the respondents self-sample is a bit of an obvious possibility. And females are often less able to get to meetups than young males are ... there are so many perfectly obvious reasons for an apparent gender-skewing of the editor population.

I'd like a WikNic in the New Forest. It's the only place I'd be able to go to, as I'm pretty much tied to the immediate area (family stuff). I know all the coolest parts of the Forest; we have some interesting bogs down here, and the temptation to take a selected bunch of people for a walk in an area where I know the good route ... and then leave them there ... [hur, hur, hur] We also have this. Worth coming to the Forest just for that! Pesky (talk …stalk!) 06:30, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have slowly come to the conclusion that most editors are old enough to be my parent or grandparent --Guerillero | My Talk 06:54, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

So what, no problem, or is it? Look at the title page of a 1715 book, "Demonstrating that the Female Gender has no less Skill for Studying / than the Male" (pictured). The same should go for the younger and the older, right? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:28, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• The trumped up misogyny charge is just being levelled to accentuate Malleus' perceived crimes - it's just one more thing to hurl and paint Malleus as blacker than black. One only has to look at many of those commenting; they are professional Arbcase commentators. I get angry just looking at their pompous ejaculations on every comment - as though they seriously imagine that the Arbs are interested in their limited views. There's one person commenting almost continually there, who I suspect is probably a man-hater (whatever that is called), but do we go around blindly levelling these charges? No. The Arbs knew full well that this case would be nothing more than a public pillorying and they have encouraged it - or is it that they are so ignorant of what is going on here, they need all these half-baked opinions? It's time to call a halt to this kangaroo court and for the Arbs t either speak up or dismiss the whole daft case. I did once think that a few of them had half a brain, now I am convinced that their is nothing to choose between the lot of them - This is like one of those dreadful skilfully directed people's courts set up in some tin-pot banana dictatorship. I am becoming increasingly repulsed by wikipedia and many of its parasitical, ignorant editors. I think the time to parachute out, is rapidly approaching and leave them in a mire together run by the biased and simple. Giacomo Returned 12:21, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Now this, Giacomo, "It's time to call a halt to this kangaroo court and for the Arbs t either speak up or dismiss the whole daft case" I totally agree with.PumpkinSky talk 12:55, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The misogyny thing is a straw man, pure and simple. The only thing the Arbs need to do is dictate an amnesty for all in the current case, and give me us that mandate to recruit my a properly-balanced team to re-write the civility policy and the terms of its enforcement. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 14:58, 15 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

@Guerrillero – isn't it odd how all the grandparents or old-enough-to-be-grandparents start to come crawling out from under their disguises once one or two of them do?! ;P Pesky (talk …stalk!) 15:51, 15 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I know what you mean but be careful lest a thunderbolt vaporize you! ;) 23:23, 13 January 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kiefer.Wolfowitz (talk • contribs)

Bring it on. I roar at the gods. Malleus Fatuorum

From the freezing wastes of Beijing, I greet you! I just saw, on my very rare returns to briefly look at this place, a notice about an ArbCom action. Since I resigned my admin status in disgust over the treatment of you a few years ago, I'm sad to see it is still on-going and even intensifying. Do I need to point to my "farewell" comment in the talk section of the evidence? I'm not sure. If you want, send me email from within wikipedia about all this. Best wishes.  DDStretch  (talk) 17:47, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Nice to hear from you again, I hope things are going well for you and your family over there. No point in you getting involved in the case, que sera, sera. Malleus Fatuorum 21:44, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Please avoid the phrase clear and present danger, penned by that over-rated apologist for the state's crushing of individuals---the Constitution and the First Ammendment be damned---Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr..

It stems from the Schenck v. United States case, where a socialist pamphlet paraphrased the Declaration of Independence on the natural rights of citizens (not to be forced to kill and be killed as conscripts). Despite the First Amendment, the socialists were given long jail terms, disgusting libertarians like H. L. Mencken.

Holmes was the author of the infamous Buck v. Bell decision allowing the state to sterilize citizens. Last week, South or North Carolina became the first state to offer compensations to those sterilized, only 50 thousand USD.

Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., should be the icon of the contemporary auto-decapitation of Wikipedia.  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 23:40, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

... when you are online. I need your help. User:Efe here thinks that "dips in and out" (second paragraph here is informal. Can you suggest a replacement. I explained to him that the term is not informal as my dictionary does not state so in brackets but as you see on the FAC, things are deteriorating. So please tell me if a replacement exists and if no, please help me explain it to him. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 11:23, 15 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

(tps) On reading the phrase, it seems to me what it's describing is her modulation of vibrato. "Dips in and out" gives the impression (to me) that she drops a tone or semi-tone into a note that is trilled and then, as the vibrato diminishes, she drops a further tone/semi-tone. Maybe "passes into and out of" might be better- don't know; you are restricted to what the RS says, so I suppose you can "pass the buck" to the RS. Ning-ning (talk) 11:47, 15 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much for replying. In short, you mean I can use "passes into and out of"? The RS says "Beyonce dips in and out of vibrato yelps and trills." Jivesh1205 (Talk) 15:01, 15 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Modulates through? Pesky (talk …stalk!) 15:53, 15 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, I don't understand. Lol. Do you mean I can replace it with "modulates thorough"? Jivesh1205 (Talk) 16:11, 15 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Beyonce ornaments her singing with vibrato yelps and trills? (Starting to sound like Monday morning at the vet's…) Ning-ning (talk) 17:54, 15 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Lol, the second part made laugh though I did not really understand what you meant. Thanks for the help. Much appreciated. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 17:57, 15 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

(od) Vet's - an abbreviation for vetinary surgeon (kind of a doctor for pet animals) Ning-ning (talk) 19:04, 15 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ahh okay. Actually I am not a native speaker of English. :D Jivesh1205 (Talk) 19:07, 15 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Beyonce modulates through vibrato yelps and trills. (And she it still sounds like Monday morning at the vet's ...) Pesky (talk …stalk!) 18:00, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure about modulates- to me it implies a change of key- if she modulates her yelping she'll sound like a puppy in a fast sports car (Doppler effect) Ning-ning (talk) 18:29, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Team!

I provide evidence and initiated some discussion at the workshop's analysis section, relevant to concerns already raised: Partisanship/double-standards, appearance of hounding, fatuous accusations that are shown to be falsehoods but never withdrawn, smearing of editors (while pursuing other goals), etc.

Spending two days documenting such problems has been labeled "harassment" and threatened with huffing and puffing. Spending two-three months writing an RfC against me, that must have been another expression of the usual "with regrets" tough (Wiki)love.

My other obligations shall keep me busy for the next days.

Good Night, and Good Luck,  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 18:09, 15 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Has this been incorporated to the Arb Case? I'm unsure of the history, but seems to be relevant. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:04, 16 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Risker asked for only 2011 examples of unaddressed incivility. Karanacs (talk) 16:23, 16 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I know-- I came across this while searching for my use of "dork" (after being falsely accused for my "dumber than an average bear" edit summaries), and my query is how this (first?) use of the f'ing c relates to the overall case and persecution of Malleus? I don't know the history ... What still hasn't been done is to present all of the times we all saw the double standard employed against Malleus, and I wouldn't know where to find those-- I suppose only Malleus would, but it can be hard to remember where to find evidence when one has been under fire for so long. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:26, 16 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Apropos of nothing in particular, but vaguely on point - my wife's birthday card from her brother this weekend had the charming local (north Wales) Welsh phrase "Penblwydd hapus cont" printed in colourful letters. "Penblwydd hapus" is "happy birthday" and I'll let you guess "cont" yourself. Get your own here (if so inclined). (Not sure he, or my wife, would win any prizes for sending this card to their chapel-going mother on Mothering Sunday: "Mam ora yn y byd" is "best mum in the world", and "ffwcin" is guessable surely once you know that "w" is a vowel in Welsh.) Thought this might amuse briefly. KBO, etc, Malleus, and a belated happy new year. Bencherlite^Talk 17:00, 16 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

chwarddo, innit bro. You sure know how to compliment a gal up in the Gogledd, boyo. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:50, 16 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well, There We Are Then. ;) Parrot of Doom 17:35, 16 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

So did the Welsh steal English profanities or vice-versa? Reaper Eternal (talk) 17:43, 16 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Grrr, did someone mention the s word?!! Martinevans123 (talk)

I've used the s word several times... it wasn't until I pointed out that it was highly offensive in England that anybody said anything.---Balloonman ^{Poppa Balloon} 20:05, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I meant that s word that's also a T word. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:39, 19 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've mentioned that it is past the 15th to both clerks and the drafting arbitrator. Fifelfoo (talk) 04:08, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Curious that none of them seemed to notice. Or care. Malleus Fatuorum 04:11, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Competence beyond competence, civility beyond civility, done hard and seen to be done hard. Fifelfoo (talk) 04:46, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I know the old saw, "Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence", but in this case I'm finding it hard to see it. All I see is administrators desperately trying to defend their own. Not made any more credible by the fact that all the arbitrators are themselves administrators. If there was ever a recipe for corruption then that's it. Malleus Fatuorum 04:54, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The arbs and admins are too busy with their student union posturing. Don't expect anything to happen for at least a week. 173.164.243.154 (talk) 05:28, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

They do seem more unprofessional and immature than they were in my active days - and that's saying a lot!  DDStretch  (talk) 12:16, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

(>**)> mega hugz (or, if preferred (o)(o) Suffocation-by-cleavage). I am a sinner! Mea culpa! I posted my evidence after the official close, but it is neither for nor against you, just something I observed while letting my OCD-dragon off his leash in analysis.

@DDStretch ... onoes! You've got to the stage where all policemen look as though they're still in school! ;P Pesky (talk …stalk!) 17:36, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Pesky: Way past that! To me, some of them look like a twinkle in their parents' milkman's eye!  DDStretch  (talk) 08:41, 19 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Pearls before swine dear boy [1]. Tres witty, but I fear probably wasted here, rather like you. Catherine Rollbacker de Burgh (Lady) (talk) 19:22, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

We're both wasted here. Malleus Fatuorum 19:45, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That's so true, it would serve them jolly well right if we sailed off into the sunset together on my beautiful yacht. However duty before pleasure and duty demands that we stay, and stay and stay and every day people will know that we are staying. Catherine Rollbacker de Burgh (Lady) (talk) 20:11, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think that's a good point. Malleus Fatuorum 20:34, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oh look the jury's out Well it's a bank holiday tomorrow, but we may well have a decision by Christmas. Giacomo Returned 22:23, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Which year? Malleus Fatuorum 22:28, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The two of you are always welcome to come and stay in my luxury villa on the Island of Unwelcome Editors. It's an exclusive club, albeit getting less and less exclusive by the day.173.164.243.154 (talk) 01:45, 18 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know that you and I have ever interacted, apologies if I'm forgetting something. K-Wolf holds you in the highest esteem as a content creator and I've rapidly become a keen listener to what that guy has to say... Then the ongoing ArbCom extravaganza in your honor has put your own personage and views on my radar as well, although I have previously seen your name and opinions now and again on The Bad Site.

So anyway, hello. I've been pondering creating some sort of assemblage of Actual Content Creators with a view to formally hashing out problems and solutions. I'd like to bounce a couple of ideas off you. Drop me an email and let's talk. MutantPop@aol.com. Best regards, —Tim Davenport /// Corvallis, OR (USA) /// Carrite (talk) 19:34, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's forbidden to create any grouping here that not everyone is allowed to join; everyone's supposedly equal don'tcha know. Malleus Fatuorum 19:45, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You mean my coven's going to be disbanded? And the familiars re-homed? And the broomsticks recycled? Noooooooo! Pesky (talk …stalk!) 19:49, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You've got a coven eh? Now we're cooking with gas! Malleus Fatuorum 20:04, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There seems to be no problem with creating a Writers' Union.

No matter how many times the distinction between "equal rights and obligations" and "equality" is explained, people just keep on repeating "at Wikipedia, everyone is equal". I can imagine that some of our "editors" drink from toilet bowls if their watchers don't pay attention.

In solidarity,

 Kiefer.Wolfowitz 20:02, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have strong suspicions that members of the coven hang out in WP:EQUINE ;D Pesky (talk …stalk!) 21:34, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA! As for toilet bowls, On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog. Montanabw^(talk) 00:02, 18 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

See this for what happened last time. The all-knowing Community loathe any suggestion that some editors may be more useful than others, or of a place to have a conversation where every passerby's 2c doesn't need to be treated with Deep Seriousness. 173.164.243.154 (talk) 01:53, 18 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ahh, yes – we're allowed to cook with gas in these modern times ;P. Montanabw, be a darling and grab the tongs, would you? ….. Here's something I made earlier:

"Ear of sow and gut of boar,

All the stuff which fell on t'floor,

Snout of gilt, and one black rat

Which drowned on falling in the vat,

Butcher's thumb untimely chop'd

And down into the mincer drop'd,

Piglet's hide and youngling's pizzle

In the sausage spit and sizzle.

Pizzle fizzle, spit and sizzle;

Barbie, if it doesn't drizzle!"

Ketchup, anyone?

(the ketchup has a minor and harmless charm involved:
Clarity, charity, add up to parity;
principle-centred reduces polarity.)

[exit stage left, cackling] Pesky (talk …stalk!) 11:26, 19 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

At the top of my page there is a banner reading that the English Wikipedia will be blacked out globally to protest SOPA and PIPA... my best guess is that SOPA and PIPA have something to do with your ArbCOM case and the community is going into mourning over any impending loss... ;-)---Balloonman ^{Poppa Balloon} 20:08, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well I am totally in favour of teaching the Yanks a lesson, but I am sick of that dreadful black thing hovering over all our edits, can no one shoot it down? Catherine Rollbacker de Burgh (Lady) (talk) 20:14, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn": about SOPA, tomorrow's childish protest, or the outcome of the ArbCom case. The latter in particular will be a reflection on Wikipedia, not on me. Malleus Fatuorum 20:21, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The editor I feel sorry for is the poor schmuck who's going to have his article as TFA for two consecutive days as a result of the protest. That's a cruel and inhumane punishment. Malleus Fatuorum 20:25, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

He rarely edits during the week so he prob won't be too bothered. And I'm sure people will help with the damage if it gets too trashed. Truthkeeper (talk) 20:31, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's all pure spite. Whatever the outcome of this silly trial you can only emerge shining and covered in glory. It was such a ridiculous thing to take the case on; if they wanted rid, a stiletto in the back would have been far more sensible, as they do elsewhere. My dear nephew wanted to be an Arb - once. He would have been so much more clever and so would you. Wikipedia has had it chances and now in a few hours an great darkness is to descend upon us - and why? Supossedly for the freedom of speech. Catherine Rollbacker de Burgh (Lady) (talk) 20:37, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Let's hope SOPA eventually prevails. We can then abandon the current US Wikipedia, as it mires in its own muck, port the current articles over to a proper English Wikipedia with servers outside the US. We can set up a sane administrative structure which enables content editors instead of attacking them, and re-enrol Malleus as editor summa cum laude. It would be a splendid outcome. --Epipelagic (talk) 21:27, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You're allowed to fork Wikipedia whenever you like. Reaper Eternal (talk) 21:28, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

But it's not easy to get the media from commons as to my knowledge there is no data dumps for it. Regards, SunCreator ^(talk) 23:28, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ah but Epipelagic, as the US goes, we have this tendency to inspire others. Best remember which nations were part of Oceania. Montanabw^(talk) 00:07, 18 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I like the idea of a UK Wikipedia, but the truth is it'd be dominated by this lot. Parrot of Doom 00:58, 18 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I thought those were Europeans, not Brits.VolunteerMarek 02:42, 18 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I would suggest that we force en-US to split, and retain en.wikipedia for en-001 Fifelfoo (talk) 01:17, 18 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That's a good video, woteva. Malleus Fatuorum 02:15, 18 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Squillions of words on your arbcom case and not a single humorous backcronym. Very disappointing. In my experience there are plenty of admins who are members of the Council for Unity, Niceness and Transparency. --Surturz (talk) 03:32, 18 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment". Malleus Fatuorum 03:38, 18 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Stay away from roof tops and journalists; but, most importantly, Parliament. Fifelfoo (talk) 03:43, 18 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

WP:Civility and User Neutrality Taskforce — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.164.243.154 (talk) 03:49, 18 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I was going to mention some 11th hour theatrics regarding the AC case, but it seems that it's now been extended to Friday; perhaps because he was a blocking admin.? It just all seems so melodramatic. But they say they're going to get some work done on it over the weekend. Best of luck Malleus - I honestly do hope it goes well for you. — Ched :  ?  04:20, 18 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Who gives a fuck. Malleus Fatuorum 04:25, 18 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Eh, I do. And Jesus--I read a billboard today that said he loves you. Drmies (talk) 05:23, 19 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The old ones are the best --ClemRutter (talk) 12:53, 19 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Malleus. I am so happy to be back. I could have dies it this blackout lasted for a week. Can you please have a look at the first two comments by Sandy here. One of them concern the phrase I asked you for help a week ago. It seems perfect to me but Sandy wrote that something is missing. Please have a look whenever you have time. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 05:21, 19 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Wow. That was pretty quick. Speed of light. :D Thanks. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 05:36, 19 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

(Again) Greetings Malleus. Everything is going fine at the FAC. And thanks for everything you have done. Today, Sandy left a few comments which you and I have addressed and she is satisfied with the corrections we made. Nevertheless, she is asking for another look at the article because she thinks the prose is still not satisfactory at places. I read the article again and did my level best (please see history of "Halo"). I request you to please take a final glance at the article and see if there is anything you think could be better. Please. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 15:49, 19 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry, events have overtaken us, or at least they've overtaken me. Malleus Fatuorum 04:16, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It does not matter. I understand. Malleus, the prose is actually stable since the copy-edits were done. :D But I don't understand completely what is happening right now. Anyway my friend, take care. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 04:56, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Malleus, I hope that you are doing well. Another editor and I have recently nominated Prosperity theology at featured article candidates. It's the first time I've brought an article there. I followed the page for a while to see what I could expect, and I was impressed with the quality of your reviews. I know that you have very limited time these days, but I'd love if you could take a look at the article. I think the prose quality is in good shape, but you have a better eye for that than I do. You might find the article interesting, it's one of those unconventional American religious movements that has started spreading across the world. Mark Arsten (talk) 19:41, 19 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

My time here may be more limited than you realise.[2]. I'm not going to start work on anything else until there's some kind of resolution that's satisfactory to me. And if that's not forthcoming ... Malleus Fatuorum 19:50, 19 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That's understandable, thanks anyway. I hope that common sense prevails in the case, but as the expression goes, common sense is not very common around here. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:06, 19 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm signing out now until ArbCom have deliberated. "I may be gone some time." Malleus Fatuorum 01:08, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't work that way, Malleus ... as they put up Proposals, feedback is still considered. This business of "no more evidence" isn't the way it works-- they don't ignore things that come forward as they put up proposed findings. By the way, your case is poorly presented. WAY too much to read, but I don't believe anyone ever showed the number of times a double standard was employed at ANI or RFA, I don't believe anyone showed how often you were baited, and the arbs can only go on what is given to them. They weren't given enough. And I was too busy dealing with you-know-what and you-know-who over there at you-know-where, so what'rya gonna do? We can't do it all, but the case was too much to keep up with, and I don't believe the arbs were given the evidence they needed. I can't work on documenting admin abuse and double standards at the same time FAC is being politicized. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:12, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps, but I've had enough of the arguments and abuse. Let the Arbs make of it what they will. Malleus Fatuorum 01:16, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Goodness, I hope your dog doesn't die or your basement doesn't flood :) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:19, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Actually my basement has just flooded, how prescient of you. I had my central heating boiler changed just before Christmas, and it drained into the same plumbing that the washing machine did. But the arseholes used a 45 degree connector rather than a 90 degree connector and didn't even fit that right. Malleus Fatuorum 01:26, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Heh... That was a bit of a screw-up! Barts1a / What did I actually do right? / What did I do wrong this time? 01:28, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the Culligan Man failed to hook up the cannisters correctly once in my basement, left something hugely leaking, and when I came downstairs a week later ... take care, there. Wet basements are As Awful As It Gets. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:29, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) I'm not sure what Culligan Man means, but if it means what I think it does it can beat that. A friend of ours in London often used to find his neighbour's number twos in the lake beneath his house. Malleus Fatuorum 01:50, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I hope the arbs can draw something good out of the mess. Meanwhile, good luck with the plumbing, and much appreciation for the edits and comments re MOO2. Geometry guy 01:47, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't care what happens to me, I can take care of myself, but Philcha needs and deserves our help. Malleus Fatuorum 01:52, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I know you can take care of yourself, but I among many care what happens here, not least because of your willingness to help others like Philcha. All helping each other is the way Wikipedia should be. Geometry guy 02:01, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict)Historically the arbs have given the appearance that they act on broad, general impressions rather than careful assessment of detailed evidence. This is especially true in complex cases such as this one. For example in the leaked arbcom emails relating to the climate change case one of them said "let's decide who we want to sanction and I'll find the diffs to justify it" or words to that effect. So I wouldn't feel too bad about not having put together complete evidence in polished form. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 01:55, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) x 2. Your CH drained into the same plumbing as your washing machine? Summat wrong there, regardless of the connector. And since both are presumably pumped systems, it makes no odds whether the thing was 45 or 90. Learn Polish and find yourself a decent plumber. - Sitush (talk) 01:56, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've had Polish builders. Never again. Malleus Fatuorum 02:03, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I intended to add a "<g>" to that, sorry. Honestly, though, in all my plumbing experience - which is fairly considerable - I've never known those two be interconnected. Yours must be a peculiar arrangement and, as I said, the shape of the connector will make no odds. The idea that something might siphon from the WM outlet to the CH boiler (which is what "drained" implies) is truly scary ... and if your point is that the WM is drawing HW from your CH then it really makes no odds whether it is 45, 90, 135 etc. Anyway, drop me an email if you get stuck - I have the feeling that we are not too far apart, I have no work on & while plumbing is not my job, I've done a lot of it. No charge, Malleus, no charge! - Sitush (talk) 02:12, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is a very simple one, and easily solved. The new connection was incorrectly plumbed in. Malleus Fatuorum 02:25, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

probably a teenage WP admin did it ... sorry ... I needed to smile at the moment. — Ched :  ?  03:13, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think that Arcom's pronouncements may be seminal. In fact I'm sure they will be, in one way or another. Malleus Fatuorum 03:26, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I just hope they are fully aware of what the offspring may be before they give birth. I'm not sticking around to help raise some demon spawn. — Ched :  ?  03:31, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Let's wait and see if you're given the choice. Malleus Fatuorum 03:37, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

me personally - it'll be MY choice. I do what I damned well please in life. I'll be nice and civil about it, but if I don't like what's being shoveled my way .. I'll walk. I'm pretty sure you can relate to that sentiment.  :) — Ched :  ?  03:54, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

All I can say it that for me at least this is a seminal moment. The rest of you may make your own minds up. Malleus Fatuorum 04:02, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Me being me, I will continue to have hopes that the wiki may get something thoughtful, insightful, innovative and (most of all) scrupulously fair out of this. Teh Arbs have the opportunity here to make an enormous difference, and one which needs to be made if this project is not going to turn into an example of how not to do something in this respect. Bad laws, ill-defined, nebulous interpret-and-apply how you will, have always, always ended up causing chaos and harm, and bringing the system in which they appear into disrepute. There is an outstanding opportunity to be grabbed - let's just hope they have the sense and courage to grab it.

Meanwhile, don't drop right of touch, please! I have a couple of articles I'd like to work up to FA ..... Pesky (talk …stalk!) 07:36, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have any idea how much work an FA is, even for superstars like me? ;-) Malleus Fatuorum 21:04, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I do... I went through the hell twice (once as a primary and once in a supporting role) I also tried to become a regular there, but quickly discovered that I wasn't anal enough about English and WP MOS to be a good FA reviewer. My hats off to those who are good editors in that regard.---Balloonman ^{Poppa Balloon} 05:26, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've read through a heap of FAC wossnames, and seen the kind of things which go on in that elite little cavern. My come-back article (History of the horse in Britain) was funny; I'd never even heard of DYK and GA until I sent that page live and someone (I think it was Kim van der Linde) suggested it should go through both of them! At the time, of course, I had absolutely no idea how many hits a DYK usually got, so had trouble understanding what the big deal was when it got several thousand ;P Such a noob! That one, I really want to get some long-history stuff on saddlery and harness making, and farriery, and treatment of disease into the article. I don't feel, at the moment, that it covers enough of the broad history without those very important aspects in there, but the trouble (as always) is in finding the darned information to put there! But, once I;ve found and added the stuff I want, I'd like to send it off to FAC; and nothing stopping what's there from being brought up to scratch in the meantime. The Meermin slave mutiny wasn't mine, to begin with, I just hijacked it (re-homed it?); too late for a DYK, as I found it at the tail end of new pages, but it GA'd happily, and I'd like to bring that up to FA as well. I have a Google alert for any recent news on the archaeology project, as I'd love to get that into the end of the article at some point. There's a lack of closure there which is entirely due to circumstances beyond my control, and which frustrates the hell out of me! Again, nothing stopping what's there already from being polished up. Feel free to play with those to take your mind off the other stuff! Pesky (talk …stalk!) 11:26, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

We are wrapping up the project and heading south for the winter. The essential piece to the projects success is collaboration. My students were fortunate to have such an outstanding editor willing to express an interest in their work. That was the catalyst that keep them engaged. Your patience, tolerance, and tact is remarkable. Incidentally, the class has been monitoring this "trial" and very much wanted to weigh in on your behalf. I advised them to stay out of the politics; but know, you have both theirs an my support. On another note, I am unable to allocate the time to effectively monitor the students second semester. One or two have expressed an interest in an FA attempt; although I am not offering any academic incentives. There will be no 2012 Project... I've decided to pack-up the podium. I had hoped someone in the English Department would step in; however, they have heard me rant and rave for the last 4 years thus will not take the bait. I plan some post project analysis as promised to gain insight on reasonable student to mentor ratios to help those mentoring such projects determine a reasonable balance. Hopefully, I will not be the last high school to give this a go. Again, on behalf of a backwater high school on the edge of no-where, our sincere expression of appreciation.--JimmyButler (talk) 20:18, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Wish you had posted the above as a piece of evidence on behalf of your class. While I appreciate and think the guidance for the class not to get involved, I do think it could have been meaningful to have you represent the class in a comment. But alas, this is why I think Malleus is of benefit to the project. He can be a rude SOB when somebody gets on his bad side, but the perponderance of his edits are to improve the project. I have zero doubt that he wants to improve WP.---Balloonman ^{Poppa Balloon} 20:37, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm rather touched by the idea of your students wanting to get stuck in on my behalf, but you were quite right to dissuade them. I think that what you and they have achieved is quite remarkable, perhaps particularly this last year. If I survive this ordeal I'll be more than happy to help any of them who fancy tilting at an FAC, and if I don't, well, at least we achieved something worthwhile. And Balloonman, you are of course quite right, I can give at least as good as I get, and no matter what ArbCom decides I'm not going to change. It's Wikipedia that has to change, not me. Malleus Fatuorum 20:52, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

And Balloonman, why the "alas" in your observation? Sounds like you still want to get rid of me. Malleus Fatuorum 20:58, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No it was because he didn't make the comments and at this point it is too late for him to do so... I just hope that some Arbs are watching this page and see his comments, because this is the type of thing that you don't get credit for.---Balloonman ^{Poppa Balloon} 05:24, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It is a shame that at least that project's co-ordinator couldn't put that in as evidence, even if the students themselves were best left out of it. Malleus, having trawled through waaaay too many of your edits, I have to say that it seems extremely rare (negligibly rare) for you to snark without provocation, though the provocation may not necessarily be immediately apparent to people looking at just one or two surrounding edits. In terms of percentages, I truly don't believe that your snark-percentage is any worse that that of several other of our less-patient editors, though clearly if I could provide you with some anti-snark magic I would gladly do so! I understand why you snark, when you you do; at the same time I also understand why it would be better (mainly for you!) if your internal snark-monster were a bit less trigger-happy ;P Pesky (talk …stalk!) 12:05, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I could use a bit of that snark-dust myself. MF, good luck to you in hopes of a fair outcome. My76Strat (talk) 12:11, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]