The concerned pages being Collaboration in German-occupied Poland and Jan Grabowski (historian)

• Volunteer Marek (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Repeatedly removing the protected template ([7][8]), despite warnings by multiple users on talk page ([9]), and despite the fact there is no valid reason one could want to remove it.

Refusal to participate in talk page discussion (despite multiple reverts on the article in the last two days, last interventions on the talk page date to the 8th and 7th April and are either mostly unrelated to the edit warring, ([10]), or simple WP:PAs which do not seek to build consensus ([11])).

Reinstating ([12]) material which has been superseeded by talk page consensus.

Generally unfriendly/non-collaborative behaviour on talk page/in edit summaries, ex. (Talk:Jan_Grabowski_(historian)/Archive_3#Another_false_edit_summary, Talk:Jan_Grabowski_(historian)/Archive_2#You_can't_be_serious)

• MyMoloboaccount (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Reinstating disputed material and going against talk page consensus, ([13])

WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT, repeating the same (inaccurate) statement multiple times (also, at multiple places), once, twice, thrice, even four times.

• François Robere (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• All of the above

Long-term edit warring on the first of the above mentioned pages, and the ensuing discussions on the talk page seem to be of a rather toxic kind.

I am unsure if all three are aware of the Arbcom discretionary sanctions, but this is clearly a case where there is an extended dispute and users do not seem inclined to participate in a calmer talk page discussion. 198.84.253.202 (talk) 02:48, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Editors given ANI notice on talk page (as far as possible). 198.84.253.202 (talk) 02:51, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Removing the protected template was an accident which I meant to remedy but then got busy. I've put it back. As for the rest of this complaint, it's of the ye ol' "why won't they let me push my POV in peace" . The claims by the IP are false or spurious (false claims of consensus, false description of edits, etc.). And anyway, how does a brand new IP know about DS in this topic area or have all this knowledge about Wikipedia policies. WP:DUCK and WP:BOOMERANG.Volunteer Marek (talk) 02:55, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Also, despite the above claim, the IP did not notify me and I just noticed this myself.Volunteer Marek (talk) 02:55, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It also appears that this posting is mostly motivated by the IP being annoyed by the fact they can't jump in to edit war because the page has been semi'd.Volunteer Marek (talk) 02:56, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I couldn't have notified you because your talk page is protected. Stop the WP:PA. If you think I'm a sock, WP:SPI is the place to go (and then you'd need a stronger agreement than just "he agrees with somebody else") 198.84.253.202 (talk) 03:00, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment the IP contributor does have a significant edit history under that address. If they are a long-term editor, they should know that no editor is subject to more frivolous ANI/ANEW reports than Volunteer Marek. As Collaboration in German-occupied Poland is semi-protected and the editors cited in this report don't agree with each other, I think that allowing normal editing to proceed and/or referring this to WP:DRN is all that is called for. power~enwiki (π, ν) 03:24, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment a long-term edit warring[14] by François Robere and consistent reinstalling opposed material[15] against talk page consensus[16] by François Robere is the only case that I find feasible on this record.2A01:110F:4505:DC00:F819:1151:10F3:7BC6 (talk) 03:29, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: — 2A01:110F:4505:DC00:F819:1151:10F3:7BC6 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. - first edit, directly here, appears to be linked to other IPs which edited target pages. 198.84.253.202 (talk) 03:32, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Response to Note: — mistaken ----> I have been editing various articles before for a quite time, my IP keeps changing daily at the place where I dwell, that's why.2A01:110F:4505:DC00:D01E:3C0D:91FA:2E5F (talk) 07:45, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment:
  • The IP editor has identified as User:GizzyCatBella [17], and should be added to the list of warring users.
  • I support now, as I have before, placing some sort of restriction on the entire page. Personal sanctions may also be due in some cases.
  • I did not reinstate disputed material despite talk page consensus, and I've only restored material after exhaustive discussion [18][19][20][21][22]. I never deleted objectionable material that was well sourced [23][24], nor did I push my POV against the consensus [25][26]. I've assumed good faith and tried to stay civil for as long as possible despite frequent hostile behaviors by others [27][28][29][30]. Two users in particular - Volunteer Marek and GizzyCatBella have developed a penchant for reverting my edits; sometimes en masse, usually without discussion, and often regardless of what the sources actually say [31][32][33][34][35][36][37][38][39][40][41] (and they've done the same with others [42][43][44]). Their continuous disregard for sources and discussion meant that at some point I started adding quotes to every single source I thought they'll challenge (this section, for example, is extremely well sourced, but was quickly reverted along with several other changes [45]); and instead of asking them for clarifications on the talk page - which they'll ignore - I started asking directly in the article using tags [46][47][48][49] (which they then removed [50][51][52]). Finally, seeing as many of their changes were going unnoticed by the other editors - lost in the general "flux" of edits (~30/day) - I started reviewing their changes on the talk page, highlighting where they were pushing a POV or not following RS [53][54][55][56].

I've done my best to discuss, persuade, source, consult other users and involve the general Wiki community, but seeing as there's no way to force a "warring" editor to concede or even discuss an issue, it's just as well this was referred here. Good luck to all of us! François Robere (talk) 18:32, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Important note to the evaluating administrator - Please consider examining also Icewhiz who is consistently edit warring on both articles. As an example, I'm showing just few of the recent cases completed by the user in question ( the latest revert is as current as today)[57][58][59][60] There are plenty more examples straightforward to spot, please take a peak at edit history on both articles. 2A01:110F:4505:DC00:D01E:3C0D:91FA:2E5F (talk) 08:25, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  Besides the article talk page (where this is discussed in a number of sections), please see - Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Holocaust history: Polish ambassador facebook post covered by wpolityce, and op-ed by Piotr Zaremba where this addition sourced to wpolityce (a Polish internet portal) coverage of the Polish ambassador's to Switzerland's remarks (in Wikipedia's voice for WWII/Holocaust history!) is discussed. Besides the RS issue, there are also BLP issues to say a notable historian is mistaken or erroneous in Wikipedia's voice (based on an ambassador's Facebook post), OR issues, and NPOV issues. The content added about Grabowski is a shocking BLP and NPOV violation.Icewhiz (talk) 10:10, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  Also relevant - Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/GizzyCatBella.Icewhiz (talk) 10:18, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The IP has self identified GizzyCatBella ‎(after someone bothered to ask on one of the IP's talk pages).Slatersteven (talk) 15:29, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A bit difficult to ask when it changes so often (as might be seen in the SPI) - François I believe did ask however (not via the changing IP TP - edit summaries or on article talk). Filing ANI [61] or AN/EW[62] shouldn't be done without identifying one's self. Nor should one reply at ANI - [63] " Response to Note: — mistaken ----> I have been editing various articles before for a quite time, my IP keeps changing daily at the place where I dwell, that's why." in response to a query on one's identity, without disclosing said identity.Icewhiz (talk) 15:36, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I was able to ask them (and get a response), now in all the tooing and throwing I might have missed where any other users asked them if they were GizzyCatBella. Perhaps you could provide the diff?Slatersteven (talk) 15:42, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

François asked them to identify and got to talk - here. In any event - filing at AN/EW and AN/I, and then replying this way to a SPA tag - is not cool as a logged out IP (without at least saying who you are). Nor is making massive reversions to an article you were previously editing, or commenting on the talk page (without identifying one's self) on topic areas you previously discussed logged in.Icewhiz (talk) 15:49, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Really, an edit summery? Is that really good enough? Also I am having trouble finding where not logging in forbids you from participating in certain activities.Slatersteven (talk) 16:00, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The onus is not on other editors to ask about sockpuppets - and connecting the dots on this edit warring IP was not so simple. As for policy posting to ANI and ANEW as a sock is a clear WP:BADSOCK "Editing project space" violation (and note that they were asked here - and did not disclose, rather responding how this is a dynamic IP). Editing the talk page of a page you have been engaged in would be a "Contributing to the same page or discussion with multiple accounts" violation as would be the 2 major revert a day (on 6 days of editing) on the mainspace page (previously edited via the account) in terms of "Circumventing policies" (all the more so given the edit warring report against Francois by the IP on the same page!), And of course WP:SCRUTINY. Note that the SPI report was not a secret - I place it here after the IP reported me as an IP to ANI. Francois placed it at the edit warring report by the IP - AN/EW diff with sockpuppet report - the IP chose to respond only after you told them it was in their best interests to do so and after stronger behavioral evidence was produced at the SPI.Icewhiz (talk) 17:50, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Really, an edit summery? Is that really good enough? It isn't, but as IP editors don't have talk pages it had to suffice. François Robere (talk) 23:13, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@François Robere: Unrelated to the whole dispute thing, but actually, what IPs don't have is user pages, they do have talk pages (otherwise, tell me what this page is). 198.84.253.202 (talk) 00:40, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It's magic, and I'll deny ever being there. It wasn't me.

(but also, if you've a dynamic IP that changes 1-2 times a day, then that's useless too) François Robere (talk) 01:07, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

How to answer this without being sarcastic?Slatersteven (talk) 08:26, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

On the contrary, feel free. François Robere (talk) 10:25, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It is an article that has provoked strong reactions and edit warring form a number of editors. I am not sure that sanctions against all the involved edds (and it should be all or none, as I am not sure any of them are any ore innocent of POV edit warring). Rather some form of editing restriction on the page (such as no edits to article space, unless agreement is reached on talk pages) applied to all editors.Slatersteven (talk) 09:54, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Fully protected Collaboration in German-occupied Poland for a week, and removed the disputed section. (I personally have no opinion regarding whether that section should remain in the article.) Use this time to come to a consensus on the scope of the article, and whether or not the disputed content should be included in it. In the future, when there is a dispute about newly-added content, discuss it and come to a consensus rather than edit warring. ‑Scottywong| confabulate _ 16:51, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Note to the evaluating administrator from Poeticbent. The article Collaboration in German-occupied Poland as it stands, with one-week page protection, is an absolute horror of intentionally misrepresented facts, deleted references found inconvenient by the POV pushers, and preposterous accusations in a campaign of Holocaust-related hate mongering, lies, and slander. — François Robere (who made 139 edits to this page) and Icewhiz are a WP:TAG TEAM coordinating their actions in several pages in the area of WP:ARBEE case final binding. Their edits are made usually minutes apart from each other especially in relation to World War II collaboration recently. The problem with WP:ARBEE is that it has not been updated for years, and nobody gives a flying finger for what it says. Considering the sheer volume of edit warring, POV pushing, and bad faith, it would probably take several days to prepare a new case, with a new list of participants, going well beyond the limited scope of this one report. Nothing is going to get resolved otherwise. Poeticbent talk 17:41, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• We are an awfully ineffective tag team seeing that my interaction with Francois has been limited to 10 edits in one article (on different content), and 1 (3 consecutive) edits on another. I have supported his efforts to introduce solid academic sourcing to the topic area on the talk page. Some other editors might want to examine their POV editing in Holocaust related victim blaming - which has been commented on externally to Wikipedia Wikipedia Continues the Crime and the Silence of Polish Participation in the Murder of Jews, Jewish Press referring to this version of the page. Interestingly - the Polish Wikipedia is more balanced than the English Wikipedia on much of this content - and the problem on enwiki is quite wide.Icewhiz (talk) 18:16, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Icewhiz edits are so toxic and so full of thinly-veiled lies that no discussion is ever going to resolve anything. – Revelations about erroneous research at Collaboration in German-occupied Poland are being replaced by him with accolades for the researcher. Why? Because there's a campaign going on elsewhere. Do you see what I mean? Poeticbent talk 19:02, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Holocaust history: Polish ambassador facebook post covered by wpolityce, and op-ed by Piotr Zaremba - using an internet portal's coverage of a diplomat's facebook is quite a shocking source for ww2 history and BLP content.Icewhiz (talk) 19:17, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

First of all, Poetic, your comments aren't exactly savoury either [64]. Second, your suggestion of "tag teaming" is idiotic. Third, GizzyCatBella made 160 edits and Nihil novi 152, and you don't seem to hold a grudge them. Fourth, if you want to argue "NPOV" you'd better have the sources to show it. Fifth, if you want to argue about "Jan Grabowski's accolades", I'd start not with some Polish ambassador or another, but with this list of "who's who" in WWII, Holocaust and Jewish studies. François Robere (talk) 23:13, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Poeticbent Of course it's the WP:WRONGVERSION. I personally also think there is content which should be removed too. The only way to get to it is to get on the talk page and let cool heads (and reliable sources) prevail. However, so far this has been frustrated because of a revert cycle on the article and because of everybody being rather uncompromising (if not outright hostile) on the talk page.

Strongly support proposal by Slatersteven, I would also (either alternatively or additionally) propose 1RR 198.84.253.202 (talk) 00:38, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest setting the article back to its Creation, and forbid any editing there without consensus. Only when (and if) consensus is achieved can an edit be made.Slatersteven (talk) 17:52, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• I would strongly support the proposal by Slatersteven. Thanks, Poeticbent talk 18:00, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Umm, protecting the article is one thing, but then making edits through protection User:Scottywong? Even if you're correct in your edit summary (and I don't think you are), that's a straight up abuse of administrative tools.Volunteer Marek (talk) 17:59, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

wp:brd.Slatersteven (talk) 18:04, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Please elaborate. Poeticbent talk 19:02, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

What does that have to do with an administrator putting a page under full protection then reverting to their own preferred version (and this isn't a "vandalism" issue, but rather a content dispute)? User:Scottywong please explain your actions here. Or self revert.Volunteer Marek (talk) 19:20, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Process Edit, Get Reverted, Discus. What happened Edit, Get Reverted, Revert back Get Reverted, Discus, Revert back. What the admin did was to set the page back to where it would have been if proper procedure had been followed.Slatersteven (talk) 08:23, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This isn't a question of BRD. This is a question of an administrator - @Scottywong:, I'm pinging you for the THIRD TIME, please respond - abusing his administrative tools by fully protecting the page then making edits to restore his preferred version through protection.Volunteer Marek (talk) 08:41, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

(and no, he didn't "set page back to where it would have been". In case, that wasn't his call to make, once he protected the page.Volunteer Marek (talk) 08:44, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

(ec) Before you scream "admin abuse" too loudly, I suggest you go and read the protection policy, in particular the part starting at WP:PREFER. Admins have discretion to protect a version other than the current one, because the current version contains policy-violating content or because protecting the most recent version "rewarded edit warring or disruption by establishing a contentious revision." GoldenRing (talk) 11:25, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Before you go lecturing others about policy and instructing them to read it, you might want to actually read it yourself. Here's what it says:

"administrators have a duty to avoid protecting a version that contains policy-violating content, such as vandalism, copyright violations, defamation, or poor-quality coverage of living people." - this wasn't vandalism, defamation, or poor quality coverage of BLP. It was a straight up content dispute.

Then it says "Protected pages may not be edited except to make changes that are uncontroversial or for which there is clear consensus". User:Scottwong, who still hasn't bothered to reply, made edits which were controversial AFTER he used his admin tools to protect the page. That's a pretty clear cut abuse of admin tools. Admins have no right to get WP:INVOLVED in content disputes AND to simultaneously use their admin tools to enforce their own preferred version. This has been standard practice on Wikipedia for years, if not decades. Seeing as how you've consistently displayed a staggeringly profound ignorance of Wikipedia policy in the past (as evidenced by the fact that every time you make a comment at WP:AE, no other admins agree with you), your position here is unsurprising.

Finally, the way you phrase your comment - "Before you scream "admin abuse" too loudly" - is obnoxious and disingenuous. I'm not screaming anything and it's shitty of you to try to portray my comment in that way. I am simply pointing out, as is my right, and correctly, that the admin in question abused his tools. Which he did. So unless you think that ANY criticism of admins is always "screaming" then you need to quiet down and keep your mouth closed. Last thing we need is one incompetent admin protecting another incompetent admin.Volunteer Marek (talk) 13:03, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Care to tone down the personal attacks? I quoted the piece of the policy between those two quotes that you conveniently skipped over - how about interacting with it instead of just ignoring the policy that doesn't suit you? GoldenRing (talk) 13:53, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

How about you don't describe my comments as "screaming"? And you're the one who actually "skipped over" the relevant parts of the policy and cherry picked the part which maybe, kind of, sort of, with a big ol' stretch and some help from creative interpretation can be used to justify an admin making controversial content edits through full page protection.Volunteer Marek (talk) 14:32, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It seems you missed the word "before" in my comment. But you know, cheery pick the part which maybe, kind of, sort of, with a big ol' stretch and some help from creative interpretation can be used to justify... what exactly? Are comments on content personal attacks now? Not last I checked. GoldenRing (talk) 15:04, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

"It seems you missed the word "before" in my comment." - oh yes, that makes all the difference and makes your incivility ok. Riiggght.Volunteer Marek (talk) 15:14, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the pot calls the kettle black. If you want to be able to cry incivility, you need to tone down your response to disagreement. At any rate, since it's now been explained to you repeatedly that policy allows what Scotty did, perhaps you might withdraw some of the above personal attacks? Both on him and me. GoldenRing (talk) 16:09, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

No, "wrong version" would've been if Scottywong had protected a... well, wrong version. This is different. He protected the page then went back and made controversial edits himself. It would've been one thing if he had protected a particular version which I don't happen to agree with. But here he is taking sides in a content dispute which means he's not WP:UNINVOLVED and as such has no business using his admin tools (which includes protecting the page).Volunteer Marek (talk) 14:32, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I am beginning to think that topic bans may be the only solution to some of the battleground mentality here.Slatersteven (talk) 13:15, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitrary break no. 1

In regards to whether this diff by Scottwong to remove a contentious section is valid, consider that the section has, for sourcing: 1) a CN tag , 2) a Tripod.com user-generated content site as a reference, and 3) a site that is tagged as having failed verification this month. Add that it is clearly is controversial, and its removal by Scottwong as the protecting admin, as outlined in WP:PREFER, seems fully appropriate. --Masem (t) 15:26, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The fact is, whether the protecting admin acted correctly or not in regards to policy, arguing over it doesn't really solve the underlying issue about the dispute on those pages (which are a problem of WP:BATTLEGROUND and won't go away even if all currently involved editors were blocked and never came back - they'd simply be replaced by new people arguing over it). I doubt the issue can be decisively resolved, but if people stop arguing about each other that would help. That of course is a lot to ask of some people so we should go ahead with the WP:1RR (which would help enforce the usual "if somebody disagrees and reverts your removal/addition, discuss immediately") and stricter consensus requirements. The solution could be the same as on other "heavily politicized" topics, for example the American Politics AE:

What do you think of this proposal? 198.84.253.202 (talk) 18:42, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

1RR would do the article good. The "consensus required" bit, would take it no where - just allow stonewalling.Icewhiz (talk) 21:44, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

And now in real time (from this). François Robere (talk) 10:24, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Identical twins? Or a bad joke at everyone's expense?

• How is is possible that two accounts editing only minutes apart from each other, for weeks already (!): François Robere and Icewhiz – wikihounding others in the same process discussions, participating in the same prolonged edit wars with extreme bias ... deleting the same references, inserting into articles the same anonymous attack webpages, harassing a woman to a breaking point hand in hand, and (most importantly), making an absolute mockery of WP:BATTLE policy in tandem, can go on like this, and nobody could (or would) do anything about it? Any ideas? Poeticbent talk 20:32, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  It would seem that using respected academic sources, e.g. Grabowski on the Blue Police is biased or even "frightened by the scale of histeria" per Poeticbent, who on the otherhand in a shocking feat BLP/NPOV/OR uses fringey coverage (a right wing internet portal) of a Polish diplomat's Faebook post to assert a historian math was "wrong". "harassing a woman to a breaking point" seems to be related to a SPI case with quite a bit of merit, while Poeticbent chose to open at least 2 meritless SPI cases recently SPI from March 2018 (opened in conjunction with Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Massacre of Brzostowica Mała (2nd nomination) of an article Poeticbent heavily contributed to, which contained shocking misuse of sources and outright blood libel in Wikipedia's voice - see Sandstein's comments here), and another SPI from 28 Jan 2018. And what we had in mainspace in Massacre_of_Brzostowica_Mała is not a unique example of the contributions here. The other accusations above have little merit - a cursory examination of Francois's edits and mine show that we actually interact very little. If at all, there is tag teaming from the other side of the aisle here. We should do WWII and Holocaust history justice by relying on mainstream academic sources - and revisionst screeds should never be presented in Wikipedia's voice (if at all, but if presented - attributed and balanced with other views).Icewhiz (talk) 21:07, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Icewhiz, I'm trying to wrap my head around the grammar of "in a shocking feat BLP/NPOV/OR uses fringey coverage (a right wing internet portal) of a Polish diplomat's Faebook post to assert a historian math was "wrong"" and its incorporation into that sentence. Nor am I sure about what you seem to describe as fringey coverage by a portal of a Facebook post there--is it this? What you can fault is the lack of proper ascription: "The problem with Grabowski's arithmetic is that Polonsky was misquoted to begin with..." should be properly ascribed and contextualized, of course: we can't have this stuff in Wikipedia's voice. But this thing, it seems to me, is symptomatic of the discussion--not enough specifics, plenty of accusations. Surely this matter can be discussed on the talk page, and the status of wpolityce.pl assessed at WP:RSN, instead of becoming ammo here at ANI. Drmies (talk) 17:24, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• @Drmies: Sorry for the bad grammar. I want to note I did not bring this to ANI (and I was actually reported here for objecting to this content - by the IP in the thread above). I did take this to the talk page and RSN (in both ONUS was not met for inclusion of this), though in retrospect it should have gone to NPOVn or BLPn. I should have said that using an internet portal's coverage of a facebook post by a diplomat is not appropriate per RS/BLP policy to say, in Wikipedia's voice, that a historian's math is wrong. It is also probably UNDUE even if it were attributed, and there are OR issues as well in some bits not sourced to the diplomat's Facebook post. I find it shocking this content would be used for a WWII history article (in which sources of better quality are not lacking).Icewhiz (talk) 18:22, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Editor interaction from Jan 2018, with actual smoke - [65], or (3 editor limit) [66].Icewhiz (talk) 21:27, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Drmies: Technically, we do not discriminate against intelectual deficiencies here in Wikipedia, but Icewhiz now adding User:Poeticbent as suspect to that miserable WP:GANG attack on a woman in a screwy duologue with François Robere (a classic WP:MEAT double-act) reverting and lying in tandem for weeks if not months already, is a sign of serious emotional instability somewhere. I have already said, WP:ARBEE is practically dead; however, WP:Requests for arbitration is absolutely necessary here; the question is only when. Poeticbent talk 14:45, 17 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The non-piped version of "WP:GANG attack on a woman" is Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/GizzyCatBella. Poeticbent was added to the report on the basis of quite a bit of evidence, most notably a 46.7% (128 of 274) intersection rate (on mostly very low traffic articles) between articles GizzyCatBella edited and articles previously edited by Poeticbent. GCB first edited on 9/2015 (in a non-newbie fashion), stopped at 12/2015 and then went dormant until 2/2018, coming back with the following user page gender correction. There is additional evidence - however the correct forum is the SPI case.Icewhiz (talk) 15:03, 17 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Usually in these situations it actually comes down to one editor who's going around causing most of the trouble and pulling others in with them. Such a person has the unfortunate effect of radicalizing those who normally would be amenable to compromise and reasoned discourse. On both sides. Such an editor usually takes a radical, uncompromising stance and does so in the way which really antagonizes the opposite side, in what is essentially a form of ethnic trolling ("let me come into an article about your country and shit all over it, oh, you don't like it, why, you are obviously A NATTIONALISSSSTTTT!!!!"). And they're also usually good at making those on their site less reasonable - particularly those who are quite impressionable.

In this case that editor is Icewhiz. And this isn't the only topic area where they've been up to this kind of stuff (the other area is Israeli-Palestinian topic, where it's my understanding they've been a similar pain in the ass, and where they have also managed to poison the atmosphere and reopen past arguments, just as the topic area was quieting down). The editor who could be reasonable but got pulled in and radicalized by Icewhiz is Francois Robere. They've made some comments which indicate that they may be capable of compromise but their actual edits to the article itself are simply provocative and tendentious and it appears that this is because they've started following Icewhiz's lead (I'm not saying they're in touch off-wiki, this kind of thing could happen organically). And the editor on the other side who's stance became hardened in response to the action of these two is GrizzlyBella or whatever her name is. You remove Icewhiz from this topic area, I promise it will quiet down and rest of the editors will find a way to work together.

One example of how Icewhiz has managed to spread bad faith all around, is his repeated calls to out right ban sources on the basis of their ethnicity (no Polish sources allowed on articles that have to do with Polish history!!!!!) Or they're broad comments about Poland and Poles which employ stereotypes or sweeping generalizations. This is a guy who should've been topic banned form this topic months ago - and I said it back then.Volunteer Marek (talk) 03:41, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

VM has been reverting well sourced information, avoiding TP discussion (and edit warring against consensus), and introduced/supported some really poorly sourced information both about BLPs and contentious subjects - for instance calling out an admin User:Scottywong above (after edit warring about this in the article) who removed information on responsibility for a mass massacre after protecting the article that was sourcedto a Tripod blog post (edit warred in by VM a few times, including the latest - here). Insisting in high quality academic sources without bias issues (e.g. opposing Facebook posts, blog posts, sources with documented censorship issues, supporting balanced use of multiple viewpoints (not attempting to exclude Polish sources - but to balance them with non-Polish sources when other viewpoints are present in them on a contentious subject), or objection to the use of sources that were called out by the SPLC/HopeNotHate/others (and covered in RS) for their various activities and that have been involved in far right politics) is not trolling. VM's stmt above of "let me come into an article about your country and shit all over it" demonstrates a clear ownership (is Poland "his"?) and bias problem (how is reflecting mainline Holocaust scholarship, sourced to high quality sources, in relevant articles - "shit"?) - that in this case has manifested itself in edit warring (much more than any I might be said to be involved in), OR, NPOV, and BLP issues e.g. here (against TP and RSN discussions - which were participated more widely than he states). VM's stance in general has been to object to material well accepted by mainstream Holocaust historians, relying on rather fringe sources while severely attacking well respected BLP historiansIcewhiz (talk) 04:18, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

That's a nice fantasy land you live in there Icewhiz. Seriously, can you point to one topic area where you've been active that you have not immediately caused a ton of trouble? How many articles have had to be fully protected because of edit wars you started? Volunteer Marek (talk) 06:35, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Very few actually - I do not edit-war as frequently (or at all) as some WP:KETTLE editor making this assertion (who seem to engage in blanket reverts across multiple topic areas - flipping the article back to their preferred state 1-2 times a day - even on BLP questionable edits - or on sanctioned 1RR topics - e.g. White Helmets (Syrian Civil War) - [67][68][69][70][71][72][73][74][75][76] (some of which are justified - and probably are OK on 1RR with the IP exemption - but still rather edgy)) - I typically will open a RfC (or bow out) when in dispute. Frankly - in ARBPIA things are much more collaborative - revert cycles are limited to a day or two (and that under 1RR) - prior to things getting hammered out on the talk page or via constructive (e.g. editing the addition or adding coutner-balancing information). 1RR would do this particular topic area good.Icewhiz (talk) 11:47, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This is another one of your typical disingenuous and bad faithed tactics where you attempt to falsely smear another editor just to "win" a content dispute. This kind of behavior is despicable. You're wrong - whatever reverts I made on that article were fully justified and with consensus, and yeah, most of them were reverts of disruptive IP editors. The fact that you try to bring this completely irrelevant bullshit up in this discussion sort of exemplifies your WP:BATTLEGROUND and WP:NOTHERE approach to editing (whatever you claim about how great your behavior over at ARBPIA is).Volunteer Marek (talk) 13:07, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I beg to differ. In this case, both sides seem to be rather uncompromising, and trying to shift the blame on others is simply an attention to shift it away from oneself. 198.84.253.202 (talk) 05:07, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Icewhiz and François Robere are not sockpuppets of each other. Regarding meatpuppetry, I'll note that Icewhiz and François actually only intersect on this one very narrow topic area, and both have otherwise long and non-intersecting histories on the site, so that also seems unlikely. Someguy1221 (talk) 05:46, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Even on that very narrow topic area - our intersection is narrow. Francois hasn't been involved in other articles (he's been doing quite a bit of in-depth editing to the collaboration article (starting with the Poland section in Collaboration with the Axis Powers and then the created Collaboration in German-occupied Poland) - but hasn't edited all that much outside of that article (he did comment on the talk on Blue Police). I conversely - haven't edited the collaboration article all that much (IIRC I got into it in a RfC on the Axis article (on the British section) - and then participated a bit on the talk, as well as adding specific tidbits that I had knowledge of from other articles - but my editing on the article itself has actually been limited to approx. 2 paragraphs)). Francois wasn't involved at all in Jan Grabowski (historian) (which I edited/expanded very heavily) or in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Massacre of Brzostowica Mała (2nd nomination) (a rather ugly article and ugly AfD - which was close in terms of headcount, though far from close in terms of policy (notability, as well as serious RS/NPOV issues)) - calling two editors who intersect on essentially one article (parent and off-shoot) and even there a not so large intersection.... a tag team / meatpuppets ?! This seems to be solely based on WP:IDONTLIKE of well-sourced content.Icewhiz (talk) 06:11, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Actually if we look at how all this came about, then we just need to follow your edits temporally - you start at one article, cause trouble, edit war, it ends up being fully protected. You then move on to another article on a related topic and do exactly the same thing, until that article gets fully protected. You then move on to a third article and do the same. By the time that one gets fully protected, the full protection on the first one has expired, so you go back and restart your WP:TENDENTIOUS editing on the first one. Rinse, repeat, etc. etc. etc.Volunteer Marek (talk) 06:35, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

VM if Icewhiz truly does show a pattern of tendentious editing, diffs are required to verify that. I don't see much of a point for both sides to fling accusations at each other without at least backing them up with evidence. Icewhiz has kinda done so, but I do not believe his three diffs paint the whole picture just yet.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 07:38, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Grace, you're right, and the diffs can certainly be provided, but assembling the diffs requires some time since it means digging through several different article's histories and finding the right ones. This is especially time consuming when someone reverts and comments as much as Icewhiz. So give me a bit of time and I'll be happy to provide them.Volunteer Marek (talk) 19:08, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The "whole picture" would show that Icewhiz is an editor with the patience, fortitude and knowledge to wade into contentious topics. He regularly clashes with TheGracefulSlick on terrorism- crime- and Palestine- related subjects, notably at AfD. Slick and he see the world differently (full disclosure: I generally agree with Icewhiz on the notability these topics, and in our attitude towards revisionist history.) This particular clash has to do with a a strong wave of publication of ultra-nationalist and Holocaust minimizing literature in Poland, featuring POV journalism, Historical revisionism and pseudo-scholarship making assertions that Western historian overstate the Holocaust. And attempting to replace a complex period in the 1930s and 1940s (including bloody post-war strife) during which Poles were at once victimized by Nazis and Soviets and were themselves were mass murderers and oppressors of Jews, with a monochrome picture of heroic, honourable, but badly oppressed and murdered Poles. History is messy, but Icewhiz's work in this area (I have dipped my toe in once or twice, but lack Icewhiz's courage and tenacity, and tend to shy away from these revisionist Poland articles,) has been a visible effort to keep articles accurate and balanced. It does not appear to be an area in which Slick (who primarily edits on pop music) has has much interest or expertise.E.M.Gregory (talk) 16:59, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

E.M.Gregory if you took the time to read my comment, you would realize I was defending Icewhiz; he shouldn't be accused of things without diffs. If you took the time to read this thread overall, you would realize I am not involved in this "clash". If you took even a little more time, you would also realize I have contributed to other things besides music, especially in the past year. Perhaps you should think things through before trying to get in a cheap shot? You just look foolish when you fail to evaluate your surroundings.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 17:15, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know if Francois and Icewhiz is the same individual, but I have to admit that this thought came to my mind a few times in the past. Both are operating in a very similar manner. Both tend to leave lengthy, often misleading commentaries followed by a list of references, green color quotation text, etc. Among other things, there are similarities in the methods of arguing, clear anti-Polish bias and always uncompromised position.2A01:110F:4505:DC00:4DDB:5808:7286:8AA5 (talk) 07:43, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

"Qui s'excuse s'accuse" - would you oppose sockpuppetry investigation Icewhiz?2A01:110F:4505:DC00:4DDB:5808:7286:8AA5 (talk) 08:32, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

FYI IP, I am an SPI clerk. If you open that investigation I will close it immediately, absent some amazing evidence. Someguy1221 (talk) 09:10, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't say I will open the case Someguy1221; I just asked if they would oppose it. If I was mistrusted, I would ask for investigation myself to prove everyone wrong instead of writing lengthy essays. Simple as that. 2A01:110F:4505:DC00:B5B2:3206:743D:B94A (talk) 10:58, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

That reads dangerously like "I am not sure, so can we have one just to prove they are not", and that is fishing.Slatersteven (talk) 11:20, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean by fishing? That I'm suggesting it? No, I'm just telling what I would have done in such situation.2A01:110F:4505:DC00:B5B2:3206:743D:B94A (talk) 11:38, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

What I mean is this looks like you are saying that "if you are innocent you would ask for an investigation to clear your name, nudge nudge, wink wink". Thus it really does read like you do not have enough evidence to start an SPI, but want to imply it is needed in the hope someone else turns up evidence. No one has to (or should have to) prove their innocence, either you straight up accuse someone or accept there is no case and drop it.Slatersteven (talk) 13:25, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Ultimately it doesn't really matter what the IP would have done. Per Wikipedia:CheckUser, checkusers are not allowed to perform 'innocence checks' on the English wikipedia. So such a request would be denied. (This also incidentally means that whatever the IP would have done, an experience user would not make such a request since regardless of their personal experience and beliefs, they should know they are asking for something which is not allowed.) Nil Einne (talk) 15:45, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I think the point about VM's (et all) socking is to show just how ridiculous the Accusation is against Icewhiz and Frank is. The issue of tendentious editing is different, and I seem to recall having been here before over Icewhiz, but I am pretty sure VM has been brought up before the beak as well.Slatersteven (talk) 09:37, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure what this comment is trying to say. If you're claiming that I'm sock puppeting, well, that's silly. If you're claiming that I accused anyone of socking that is also false.Volunteer Marek (talk) 19:08, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Look!! Protection on article removed and Icewhiz goes for it right away ---> boom! [77] This is what VM was talking about in his comment (quote VM under). And this is happening as we speak! 2A01:110F:4505:DC00:B5B2:3206:743D:B94A (talk) 11:33, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Actually if we look at how all this came about, then we just need to follow your edits temporally - you start at one article, cause trouble, edit war, it ends up being fully protected. You then move on to another article on a related topic and do exactly the same thing, until that article gets fully protected. You then move on to a third article and do the same. By the time that one gets fully protected, the full protection on the first one has expired, so you go back and restart your WP:TENDENTIOUS editing on the first one. Rinse, repeat, etc. etc. etc

Protection was actually removed on 9 April (the protection template lingered). The edits were done per consensus, pre-edit, at a 12 day discussion - Talk:Jan Grabowski (historian)#Dariusz Stola's review - restoring content that was removed by mistake in this diff by @198.84.253.202: - TP - "But yes, sorry for the removal and of course it should go back in". The TP discussion was open for 12 days - and showed overall support for restoration of the content (all 4 reviews were removed by mistake by 198.84.253.202, and all of them by noted historians and/or in a respected journal) - if this demonstrates anything - it is VM coming in and blanket-reverting (with a mildly incivil edit summary) an edit done congruent with talk-page consensus - without bothering with participating in the talk page discussion during the protection (and commenting today on the TP only after he blanket reverted an edit done in accordance with the discussion).Icewhiz (talk) 11:56, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I think that the editor interaction utility is of limited usefulness (e.g. comparison of me and Icewhiz [78]). 3+ editors is harder to shake off, but the fact is that in a BATTLEGROUND situation, when two editors are online simultaneously, you often get rapid back/forth debate. Throw in another few editors and suddenly you've got two (or more!) different camps that look like they're tag teaming, but actually haven't even met and live in different countries. Given the number of users, it's inevitable that some will interact in this manner across multiple pages - especially within the topics of interest to those editors. I'd ask that any accusations of sock/meating cease, or an SPI is opened in the case of convinving evidence. ∰Bellezzasolo✡ Discuss 17:27, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Caution, I got into a SPI twice based on this level of evidence: 17 March, 28 Jan. ;-).Icewhiz (talk) 18:29, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A late entry to this discussion:

• I find the proposition amusing. I've checked the intersection of edits between Icewhiz and myself and it's quite small, and I can't point to any particular linguistic or behavioral trait that would suggest we are are own person. I wouldn't recommend an SPI of (/against) us, but speaking as myself I could hardly care less.
• As for those who suggested "unwillingness to compromise" (@Volunteer Marek, @198.84.253.202:), I just want to point to this, which has a list of diffs demonstrating my "unwillingness" to compromise and discuss; as well as this, which shows the general trajectory these discussions took, as well as other editors' (notably VM and Bella) contentious, poorly-sourced, and "IDONTLIKEIT" edits.
• @Someguy1221: I'll note that Icewhiz and François actually only intersect on this one very narrow topic area, and both have otherwise long and non-intersecting histories on the site I hope you found my long, non-intersecting edit history interesting. I try to appeal to my readers.
• @Icewhiz: he's been doing quite a bit of in-depth editing to the collaboration article Thanks for the comment. However, what struck me here is just how shallow some of the work done by others is. Bella has repeatedly misrepresented or even mis-cited sources, and most of her discourse when faced with sources that clearly contradicting her took the form of short exclamations in "all caps". A lot of the work was just fact checking or source checking - some reading, granted, but nothing that comes close to academic work. I came to the conclusion she was canvassing for sources - skimming to find statements that satisfied her, without actually reading the source. It's a human tendency everyone should all be aware and wary of, but when it's done with such dedication... there's something sad about it. François Robere (talk) 11:11, 17 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A reminder to admins

These articles are under discretionary sanctions, which are intended to be used to stop just the kind of disruptive behavior we see here. Would an admin kindly do something here under DS:EE? I'd suggest topic bans for all the editors involved, but, whatever it is, please do something, that's why we have discretionary sanctions in the first place. This AN/I discussion is not helping anything, and is, in fact, hardening positions and fraying tempers. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:13, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

We have WP:AE for that. Proposals to use nuclear option by handling out random topic bans just because "it looks very contentious" are never productive. Anyone is free to file a WP:AE report with specific allegations supported by diffs against specific editors for specific violations of policies or discretionary sanctions. I might do that myself when I get a bit more time.Volunteer Marek (talk) 13:18, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

All (or mostly) very true, but the purpose of DS is to allow admins to be more proactive in those subject areas, and I was suggesting that doing so would be appropriate. Beyond My Ken (talk) 19:37, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I wish. François Robere (talk) 11:27, 17 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A suggestion

Many pages about collaborations with Nazi are really contentious because people have developed them along the lines "collaboration of ethnic group X with Nazi". This is very bad idea because blaming ethnic groups (rather than countries or individual citizens of certain countries) of collaboration with Nazi is actually wrong, not supported by academic sources, offends WP contributors, and was the basis for racist Stalinist deportations after WWII. What needs to be done is renaming all such pages along the lines "Collaboration of country X citizens with Nazi occupiers" (I commented about it here - agree with IP who started this thread). That will help to minimize conflicts and improve the content. My very best wishes (talk) 02:15, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Considering that the article at the core of this dispute is titled "Collaboration in German-occupied Poland", which doesn't mention ethnicity at all, only a state or region, how does that suggestion help this particular problem? Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:01, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Right. That - as reflected in the title - is what it's *suppose to be* like. About a country not an ethnicity. But that's not how it ends up in practice. This is in fact the central problem here with editors like Icewhiz purposefully trying to make it about ethnicity (and even suggesting that we exclude some sources on the basis of their ethnicity). Hell, after failing to force his way through on the article he even started a suggestion on the talk page [79], to make the article exclusively about "collaboration by ethnic Poles" (and exclude collaboration by any other ethnic group). (This led another editor to - jokingly I think, though sometimes it's hard to tell - to suggest that the article should actually be about "collaboration by ethnically pure Poles". If this doesn't show that Icewhiz is here with a POV WP:AGENDA I don't know what does.Volunteer Marek (talk) 13:11, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Marek, you should stop making unfounded accusations about people. I (strongly) disagreed with Icewhiz's rationale, but he did have a rationale for his proposal, and there was no sign of bias on his part in making it. François Robere (talk) 11:25, 17 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

My observation from the collaboration articles (Collaboration in German-occupied Poland and Collaboration with the Axis Powers) on scope was actually opposite - one of the major problems was editors feuding over how much content to devote to each ethnicity - e.g. how much space (and claims) to devote to Jewish collaborations vs. Polish collaborations, which also led to introductions of content like this diff with piped links (Koniuchy massacre->Jewish, Skidel revolt->murdered Poles) to two incidents of inter-ethnic strife, or edits aimed to minimize ethnicity X while maximizing ethnicity Y (and in WWII German occupied Poland - there are at least 6 relevant ethnic groups (in different parts)).Icewhiz (talk) 04:16, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

"edits aimed to minimize ethnicity X while maximizing ethnicity Y" - Dude. You fucking proposed that ONLY collaboration by "ethnic Poles" should be included and collaboration by any other ethnic group be excluded. How the hell can you then come here and complain with a straight face that SOME OTHER editors are trying to "maximize ethnicity Y" and "minimize ethnicity X" when you yourself have proposed the most extreme variant on that strategy????????????????????????????????????????? Volunteer Marek (talk) 13:14, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

To be clear - diff - I suggested the same for other ethnic groups - " I will support such a breakdown for other ethnicities", "Jewish collaboration with Nazi Germany, Polish collaboration with Nazi Germany, Ukrainian collaboration with Nazi Germany, Lithuanian collaboration with Nazi Germany,...." - which would keep each one in its own page (instead of, for instance, repeating Judenrat in each country or covering Ukrainian Auxiliary Police in multiple countries, etc.) - the suggestion did not garner support - but it was completely equal for all ethnic groups - it was not an article specific suggestion.Icewhiz (talk) 13:23, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Because that is what much of the dispute (even over its name) is about. The issue of "ethnic" poles vs "Germans" or "Ukrainian" Poles. If there was a WIki wide policy (lets call it that) that said that all articles about collaboration with Germany had to be called (and about) collaboration by a nations citizens it would remove much of the dispute by virtue of the fact there would be a policy and a standardization. I can think of no other article on this subject which has so much space devoted to ethnicity, or that includes material about other nations citizens.Slatersteven (talk) 09:42, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

As pointed out already "collaboration by ethnic group X" is generally problematic as an organization strategy for an article because ethnicities spill over into each other and often overlap. Which isn't to say it can't be roughly done, but the proper way to do it needs a lot of context and that can't be done when you limit it to "only collaboration by ethnic group X". Volunteer Marek (talk) 13:16, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Forgive me, but it was not people like me who argued that ""ethnic Germans" should not be lumped together with "ethnic Poles". The reason for the forking suggestion was to address that issue, that Pole should mean "ethnic Poles". I did not argue for (and in fact largely opposed) the splitting off into separate paragraphs for each ethnic group. Arguing that what mattered was nationality, not ethnicity.Slatersteven (talk) 14:19, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Nazi did persecute specific ethnic groups, such as Slavs, Jews, etc. Such "ethnic issues" will inevitably appear on such pages, and they should. However, other than that, there is no need to debate any ethnic questions on such pages. Every Nazi collaborator, an individual or an organization, has a name. Just use that name per WP:Common name. For example, naming Russian Liberation Army among the Nazi collaborators is not really an "ethnic issue". This is just a common name of organization. Same with all other collaborators. No one will object. My very best wishes (talk) 16:53, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Large numbers of former Poles served in the German army, we cannot list all of them.Slatersteven (talk) 08:04, 17 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Of course not, and no one suggested it. What should be done is placing sourced info about Nazi collaborators on the page, like here. Overall, I think this ANI thread qualify as block shopping or forum shopping. If anyone had a case, they would go to WP:AE. My very best wishes (talk) 14:01, 17 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

"Well sourced" and then you go on and link to the most OR content in the article, which has been clearly disputed (and superseeded) on the talk page, a discussion from which you seem to have abstained. 198.84.253.202 (talk) 14:32, 17 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry to disagree with you, but if you want to edit contentious subjects and complain about other contributors, I think you should create named account. This is for the reason of accountability. My very best wishes (talk) 21:18, 17 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Why should we delay dispute resolution? There is obviously a perceived POV dispute which has evolved into edit warring and/or user misconduct, and WP:ANI is one of the appropriate places to handle such a situation. 198.84.253.202 (talk) 00:28, 18 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Well, you did not seek any WP:Dispute resolution beyond discussing this on article talk page. Dispute resolution would include posting RfC, request for mediation, etc. But instead you reported users you do not like to the ANI. This is not dispute resolution, but forum shopping or block shopping. My very best wishes (talk) 04:05, 18 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

As someone who has peeked at this affair from time to time but opted out of participating, I'd like to say I think the proposal by User:My very best wishes is a good one; with regards to the issue raised by User:Slaterseven, in general phrases like "x-ethnicity individuals" (and etc) can be helpful. In addition, keeping in mind I don't think my opinion is exactly the same as Icewhiz' here, I'd like to say I strongly disagree with the characterization of his editing tendencies. In topic areas like the Middle East, sadly occasionally a cesspool of nationalist edit warring, he has been one of the most civil, conciliatory and especially patient editors (way more patient than I would be given what he sometimes had to put up with). Collaboration in the, erm, 1940s era, is as complicated an issue as it is (understandably and perhaps rightfully) emotional, and it's very easy to end up with misunderstandings. Nobody ever said WP:AGF was always easy. Cheers all,--Calthinus (talk) 19:42, 17 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It is with a heavy heart that I have to bring the actions of an editor to ANI. Moylesy98 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is an editor that works on British railway related articles. The problem is, he often adds material that is unreferenced. Often in an effort to add up-to-date information to articles. After several complaints/warnings, I blocked Moylesy98 for three days earlier this month. The block was appealed and upheld as valid. I had hoped that having served the block, he would at last get that information added to Wikipedia articles needs to be backed up with a source. However, Moylesy98 has just carried on as before. The latest example being this unreferenced addition to a Featured Article, which I reverted.

I really don't want to lose an otherwise productive editor from the project, but something needs to be done. Therefore I propose a formal restriction on Moylsey98, similar to a TBAN:-

"Moylsey98 is prohibited from adding any new material to any Wikipedia article/list that is not backed up by a reliable source".

Editing against the restriction to result in escalating blocks. Mjroots (talk) 05:37, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Moylsey 98 has been notified of this discussion. Mjroots (talk) 05:40, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose a formal restriction of this sort is a complete waste of time. It would be nice if @Moylesy98: can comment here as to their editing patterns; if they don't, this may call for an indef block. I have little patience for contributors on train-related articles who are unwilling to list their sources even after multiple direct exhortations to do so. power~enwiki (π, ν) 05:53, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Agree with Power~enwiki Everyone is already prohibited from adding any new material to any Wikipedia article/list that is not backed up by a reliable source; if what is meant is that the subject should be explicitly required to provide inline citations with all their edits ... well, that might be good, but the restriction would need to say that. Otherwise, it could easily just mean providing an author's name and year in an edit summary. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:08, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  @Hijiri88:, that is what is meant, an explicit requirement to provide a reference to a reliable source with every edit that add to an article or list. I have a few reasons in mind as to why Moylsey98 is not doing so, but I want to keep them to myself for the moment. Let's see what the editor in question has to say for himself. Mjroots (talk) 11:12, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Well, if that's the case then I'm neutral on the proposal, but I do think it would need to be reworded to make that clear. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:17, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Hjiri 88 "Everyone is already prohibited from adding any new material to any Wikipedia article/list that is not backed up by a reliable source;" is not accurate. What WP:V actually says is

  All material in Wikipedia mainspace, including everything in articles, lists and captions, must be verifiable. All quotations, and any material whose verifiability has been challenged or is likely to be challenged, must include an inline citation that directly supports the material. Any material that needs a source but does not have one may be removed. (emphasis added)

  So material must be "verifiable", which is not the the same thing as "verified", and if it is a quote or disputed or contentious it needs to be sourced or it is liable to be deleted. There's no requirement that it be deleted ("may"), nor is there any requirement that anything added to an article must have a source accompanying it ("verifiable" not "verified"). Of course, adding unsourced material just invites deletion, so it's best practice to include one whenever possible, but it's not a requirement by policy - although it certainly can be made a requirement for individual editors via a sanction. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:35, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Beyond My Ken: Actually, if you read my comment and the policy text you quote more closely, they are the same. The only possible exception allowed by the policy but not my paraphrasing of it would be someone adding something that may or may not be verifiable but they don't know, then it turns out to have just happened to be accurate to what was in a reliable source. I didn't say there was an requirement to cite one's source explicitly, but there is a requirement to have a source, even if one does not specify it. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 07:39, 17 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment a reference has been provided in a recent edit by Moylesy: [80]. I'm not at all qualified to comment on the obvious follow-up question of whether these references are to reliable data sources, or unverified user-generated content. Regarding the communication issue: Moylesy98 (talk · contribs) appears to have never edited a page in the Wikipedia: or Talk: namespaces, though they've occasionally interacted on User talk: pages. power~enwiki (π, ν) 21:59, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Support - at face value, we're already in escalating block territory, so the unusual additional step of imposing a non-negotiable editing restriction seems pretty lenient, and I'm somewhat sympathetic to the view that it may be a waste of time. That being said, the fact that you come here "with a heavy heart" to propose something that I view as being lenient tells me that you feel this editor is a net positive to the project and deserves to have the additional rope extended. I'm willing to trust your judgment in that regard. Swarm ♠ 02:02, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose The long-standing principle of WP:V is that content needs to be verifiable but that inline citations are only required for direct quotes and material which is controversial and so may be challenged. So, because citations are only required in specific cases, we have lots of content which is not cited in detail and it's easy to find this at FA level too. For example, see the current FA which contains lots of detail which is not cited inline and this even includes a direct quote – "were many pathetic scenes". The edit in question seems quite verifiable as the history of these locomotives is extremely well-documented. As the facts in this case are just minutiae which are only of interest to railway fanatics, there doesn't seem to be any significant controversy. Perfectionism is explicitly contrary to policy and so there is no policy-based reason to sanction Moylsey98. Andrew D. (talk) 13:21, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Andrew Davidson: The long-standing principle of WP:V is that content needs to be verifiable but that inline citations are only required for direct quotes and material which is controversial and so may be challenged. Actually, the general consensus seems to be that while inline citations are only required under specific circumstances, cited content is better than uncited content and in almost all circumstances not including citations is sub-optimal at best. And requiring higher standards (or placing specific restrictions) on editors who have engaged in disruptive behaviour is pretty standard: requiring an editor to explicitly cite their sources is better than outright banning them, isn't it? Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 07:39, 17 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, the above user (a former Pole) tries permanently to falsify Polish history according the new Polish law to protect and defend the good name of Poland. This is the affected page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Poland Can someone stop this vandalism? The members of the Armia Krajowa (Home Army) were despite of their name NOT soldiers but simple partisans. In most of their actions they did violate the Geneve conventions eg. did murder not only unarmed and peaceful German settlers what caused in revange often dead Poles, but also Poles in German duties or German soldiers on streets. In all those cases they did not wear Polish uniform but did were camouflaged as civilists. And of course they didn´t wear a official sign visible already at distance so that one can recognise that they were enemies. And neither did they carry their weapons openly. They also didn´t wear rank insignia, even not their commanders as proofen in many photos. Instead they did wear GERMAN uniforms and weapons! All those violations are making them unlawful combatants, in simple words partisans. Please stop this user and his vandalism! Thanks in advance. Sorry when this is the wrong place for my request but I´m only a newbie here. Austrianbird (talk) 05:42, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Tough verty often unlawful combatants as they didn´t wore uniforms is borderline incoherent. I've reverted your addition, and advise you to not edit-war. power~enwiki (π, ν) 05:57, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It should probably be noted that Austrianbird seems to make a habit of adding original research to Wikipedia articles: see [81][82][83][84][85] and so on. 86.150.123.30 (talk) 06:13, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yes and the edits they're currently edit warring over are the definition of Original Research. Canterbury Tail talk 15:44, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

and on top of that Austrianbird is wrong, the Home Army soldiers were eventually recognized as military combatants by the Germans.[86] 2A01:110F:4505:DC00:4DDB:5808:7286:8AA5 (talk) 09:26, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

ROFL Polish partisans from the AK were not recognies as soldiers by the German Army or any other German force/ institution. That´s why they ended in concentration camps usually! BTW, "2) Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions: (a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates; (b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance; (c) that of carrying arms openly; (d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war." ^[1] Poles are working hard on the falsification of their history, one should read the books of Jan Gross and Barbara Engelking!Austrianbird (talk) 13:19, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• @Austrianbird: Vandalism has a very specific definition on Wikipedia which is set out in WP:VANDAL. Calling edits which do not meet that definition, as you have been doing repeatedly, is a personal attack. Please stop. Continuing to call edits vandalism when they are not will likely result in you being blocked.
  Please read or re-read Wikipedia's content guidelines including WP:OR, WP:NPOV, WP:RS, etc. It is best to express your disagreements in terms of compliance with, or lack thereof with these. Remember, edits may not be called vandalism simply because they do not, or you feel they do not, meet these guidelines. Thank you for your understanding. Jbh ^Talk 13:38, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Jbhunley

Thanks for your explanation. Distorting history is a crime in my country, not only a violation of a wikipedia rule. So please stop this former Pole to falsify history for the benefit of Poland´s "good" name. You know, there´s only one country in whole Europe were Jews got murdered in pogroms by their countrymen long before, during, and even after WWII? The country´s name is POLAND! Austrianbird (talk) 14:07, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I can understand your frustration, however Wikipedia does not base its content or editing policies on the laws of your country — they are quite irrelevant here. If you think something is incorrect discuss it on the article talk page. Bring the opinions and observations of reliable sources not your own because the only thing that matters is what those sources have to say on the matter.

Please pay particular attention to the requirement to write in articles from a neutral point of view and the policy against original research. For instance your entire argument above about the violations of the Geneva Conventions are, in the context of Wikipedia, meaningless unless addressed in reliable sources. Even if some sources discuss the matter it may not figure prominently in the article, if at all. The prominence of given opinion is an article is directly related to the prominence of that opinion in reliable sources. Understand that Wikipedia is not the place to right great wrongs. If you are not able to restrain your feelings you should reconsider editing it this area.

(I have fixed the indentation. Please take a look at this brief tutorial on editing talk pages which describes how to properly indent and thread a talk page conversation.) Jbh ^Talk 16:25, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Austrianbird drop your confrontational attitude, stop accusing others of vandalism or changing history simply because you don't like their edits, discuss on the article talk page or you will be blocked very fast. Just a friendly advise.2A01:110F:4505:DC00:6564:5C7C:DC3B:2D73 (talk) 01:33, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

User Ashbourne1 has consistently been vandalizing articles on Wikipedia or introducing false narratives in topics related to Turkish or Turkic peoples (such Azerbaijanis). User is introducing ethnic bias and prejudice in his edits, quite a few clearly being vandalizing trollish behavior as well which disrupts the overall environment at Wikipedia.

He's vandalized and reverted the names of the city of Istanbul to Constantinople on a couple articles: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ahmed_Muhtar_Pasha&diff=836051630&oldid=822783307 and https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Stefan_Bogoridi&diff=833160867&oldid=802446359 when Constantinople was changed to Istanbul in 1453...

He removed a forward link involving Turkic rulers for this article - https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tuman_bay_II&diff=836055080&oldid=813045789

Removed Robert Hossein's Azerbaijani heritage from this article (calling it a ploy from Azerbaijani nationalists, which is clearly false) - https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Robert_Hossein&diff=831519237&oldid=831248849

Removed the ethnic heritage of the Iranian Schindler, who was an ethnic Azerbaijani - https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Abdol_Hossein_Sardari&diff=836220590&oldid=832381432

Removed Category:Israeli emigrants to the United States for this Azerbaijani-Jewish author (from Israel) here - https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Zecharia_Sitchin&diff=828915449&oldid=827085356

Vandalized the name of Israel, and changed it to Palestine here - https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Margot_Frank&diff=830969470&oldid=830770524

Added Westboro Baptist Church in this article before quickly reverted for false positive - https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Faithful_Word_Baptist_Church&diff=835098672&oldid=833017156 — Preceding unsigned comment added by WikiNutt (talk • contribs) 00:17, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I question how malicious this user really is, because it's clear you're assuming bad faith and have your own agenda. You also did not notify the user that they have been reported here, which is required. Elassint ^Hi 02:02, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Elassint is certainly correct that you are required to report him. As to Elassint's argument that you have your own agenda .. that seems odd, because Elassint just criticized you as assuming bad faith for assuming the other editor had their own agenda?? All that said, a number of the edits you point to seem quite inappropriate, and well beyond facially good faith revisions - this does seem to deserve closer attention by some admins. 2604:2000:E016:A700:7943:2675:5B48:2161 (talk) 08:02, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks user, and i'm hoping the community can keep a closer eye on this user. There is somewhat of a status quo maintained at wikipedia and I noticed this user has been editing articles by erasing mentions of individuals ancestries (for example): Erasing Robert Hossein's ancestral heritage and claiming that it is a ploy by "Azerbaijani nationalists," which is just utter nonsense, or the fact that he deleted the ancestry of the Iranian Schindler, who was also an ethnic Azerbaijani. He erased important information without conveying it on the talk page. While we seem to be seeing eye to eye, I think it is somewhat insulting when User:Elassint claims that i'm the one who may have "an agenda," when I'm questioning the motives of the other individual deleting significant information to mask certain portrayals of people that he doesn't like. There seems to be targeting toward topics relates to Israel and Turkic peoples (Azerbaijani people, history of Ottomans). Additionally, I wasn't aware that I'm to notify user. I'm not requesting disciplinary action, and I've repeated before elsewhere that I find this entire ordeal too court-like. I just want to make sure that individuals don't push political agendas on Wikipedia, considering some of the recent and existing drama there has been on the Russian wikipedia platform about political bias which extends to ethnic bias. I'll let user know that he was mentioned, thanks User talk:2604:2000:E016:A700:7943:2675:5B48:2161 . WikiNutt (talk) 07:27, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• @WikiNutt: How these[87][88] edits are vandalism? See WP:NOTVAND. Have you attempted to discuss the issue with Ashbourne1?

Why do you mark major edits[89][90][91][92] as minor? D4iNa4 (talk) 11:44, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

If you'd please remain on topic it'd be appreciated, User talk:D4iNa4|talk, much of what you reference back to are reverts I made from the user who unjustifiably deleted relevant information, see bottom bulletin on page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Minor_edit#When_to_mark_as_minor_changes). Again asking you to remain on topic and to refocus on the edits stemming from user in question instead of trying to make this about me... WikiNutt (talk) 07:35, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Read when not to mark as minor changes on same page and you are marking your major edits as minor. Since you have made a report, your conduct will be judged as well. I am not really seeking any sanction on you, but only telling you that you need to improve your editing. D4iNa4 (talk) 14:50, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment - the use of "Constantinople" is correct until 1928. From the Istanbul article " the use of the name Constantinople remained common in English into the 20th century, Istanbul became common only after Turkey adopted the Latin alphabet in 1928 and urged other countries to use the city's Turkish name." Therefore any change of Istanbul to Constantinople when dealing with a date before 1928 is not vandalism, but good editing. Mjroots (talk) 14:54, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• But why did "Constantinople" get the works? That's nobody's business by the Turks. Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:09, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The city fell in 1453. While it was still called Konstantiniyye in certain contexts, it was also called Istanbul (which is also a Greek word for "in the city.") There is significant information available showing that the context of Istanbul and Konstantiniyye were synonymous, and that the Ottomans would use them interchangeably. There are plenty of other Wikipedia pages relating to Turkish history which continue to use "Istanbul," rather than "Constantinople." If this is the decision of Wikipedia, there should be changes in all of them. Though I found the changes to be correlated to possible bias which I why I made mention of them. WikiNutt (talk) 07:58, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Whether the city should be referred to as Istanbul or Constantinople (in contexts of Turkish/Ottoman history between 1453 and 1930) is certainly a legitimate content disagreement, to be discussed on article talk pages or possibly in a central WikiProject or Naming Conventions venue. Both versions are clearly legitimate in principle, and as far as I can remember we never had a clearly spelled-out project-wide consensus guideline for or against either. (The crucial content argument here is not what the city was called at a given time, but what English-speaking scholars call it today, when speaking of that time, and as far as I know, nobody ever went to the trouble of demonstrating whether either of the two names clearly dominates in the contexts in question.) But anyway, that's not a discussion for ANI. Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:00, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A centralized discussion would probably be best; I also think that in addition to from what English-speaking scholars call it today when speaking of that time, (as noted by Future Perfect), which may be influenced on what other periods such scholarly work is addressing; we should also consider what English-language scholarly sources called it at the time, especially if these are referenced and quoted (or expected to be referenced and quoted) to minimize changing from one name to another mid-sentence or mid-paragraph. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 20:23, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Previous ANI
  • Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive946#Rogers Toronto Date/EngVar Vanda
  • Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive947#Range block possibility?

• 2607:fea8:235f:f5fe::/64 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · block user · block log)
  • ‎2607:fea8:235f:f5fe:757f:5e4:28:513c (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · block user · block log)
  • 2607:FEA8:235F:F5FE:5871:A9AD:4B2D:D4B (talk · contribs · (/64) · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)
  • 2607:fea8:235f:f5fe:7019:4aec:fe26:dee1 (talk · contribs · (/64) · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)

The ip user was banned for English variant vandal, removal of the Chinese word 有限 (limited) from Chinese limited company (mostly airline) and other behaviour as 2607:fea8:235f:ff8f::/64 (talk · contribs · 2607:fea8:235f:ff8f::/64 WHOIS). End up the range block is ineffective, as the ip was able to escape the block by using some ip that outside the block but still under the same ISP (2607:fea8::/32 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) ), such as this vandal 2607:FEA8:235F:FA28:F05A:9C30:9EE1:4CD5 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) in December and some other ip in October (2607:FEA8:235F:FE82:E1F7:8329:234C:374E (talk · contribs · WHOIS)) Nevertheless the old ip were stale and the range block was expired.

The now relevant vandal was those edit at least from the range 2607:fea8:235f:f5fe::/64 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · block user · block log), which i am not a native English language user, so i can't list out all vandal, but here is the sample:

• Haggis, a food that had Scottish origin, was vandalised by ‎2607:fea8:235f:f5fe:757f:5e4:28:513c (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · block user · block log) by changing to American spelling of word. (Special:Diff/836335228)
• Removal of "Limited" in China Southern Airlines by 2607:FEA8:235F:F5FE:5871:A9AD:4B2D:D4B (talk · contribs · (/64) · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) (Special:Diff/836290958)
• Removal of "Limited" and adding hoax name to Cathy Pacific by 2607:fea8:235f:f5fe:7019:4aec:fe26:dee1 (talk · contribs · (/64) · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) (Special:Diff/832065897)
  • Ditto but in Air China (Special:Diff/832065732)

Since 2607:fea8:235f:f5fe::/64 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · block user · block log) cover the most recent month vandal, it seem it is the range that had the least collateral damage. Matthew_hk tc 07:04, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

2607:fea8:235f:f5fe::/64 shouldn't have any collateral damage at all, so I've blocked it again, for three months this time. No prejudice to any other admin blocking the larger range, but I'm not bold enough for that. Bishonen | talk 11:00, 14 April 2018 (UTC).[reply]

Note: I meant to say I've blocked it, not that I've blocked it again; the previously blocked range was 2607:fea8:235f:ff8f::/64 (see the difference?). Perhaps that should be blocked as well — I'm not sure. Bishonen | talk 11:07, 14 April 2018 (UTC).[reply]

Based on a behavioral analysis, Special:Contributions/2607:fea8:235f:f000::/52 would probably be safe to block. Most of the edits are disruptive changes to dates/spelling. Maybe the narrower range block will resolve this, though. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 01:39, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Be BOLD, User:Bishonen. If you can block one "range", you can block them ALL. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.234.100.169 (talk) 07:14, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

One "range", is it? What's with the scare quotes? All right, I'm feeling bold. I've blocked all ranges, IPv4 as well as IPv6, for ever. For you, 68.234.100.169, you need to stop trolling noticeboards and user talkpages and vandalising articles. See warning on your page. Bishonen | talk 09:23, 15 April 2018 (UTC).[reply]

User:Sportsfan 1234 spams wikipedia with deletion requests, sometimes multiple articles per day, without taking a detailed look at the articles. Whereas some of the deletion requests actually have validity, lots of them do not. Many articles that the user nominates pass WP:GNG per multiple independent in-depth sources cited. User:Stephreef repeatedly contacted User:Sportsfan 1234 concerning the issue but never received any response. User:Sportsfan 1234 never engages into any discussions but continues his/her agenda.Stephreef (talk) 06:37, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Every article I have nominated that you have created fails WP:NBASKETBALL. It has also been pointed out to you that these articles fail GNG, contrary to what you are saying. You calling this spamming is a borderline attack on my editing here. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 06:50, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Is a topic ban warranted? We don't need prolific creation of non-notable topics. Legacypac (talk) 06:58, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

User:Legacypac - There seems to be uncertainty as to your question about a topic-ban. Are you inquiring about a topic-ban on User:Sportsfan 1234 against "spamming Wikipedia with deletion requests", or against Stephreef creating articles that don't pass basketball notability? Robert McClenon (talk) 00:11, 18 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I am not sure what you are referring to @Legacypac. Topic ban for me? Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 07:00, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Deletion requests are "prolific creation of non-notable topics", User:Legacypac? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.234.100.169 (talk) 07:02, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]